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 Blairsville man accused of trying to kill son.
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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2007 :  1:54:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I AGREE TOO.. and no that is no excuse..

If a person can make choices for themselves, live by themselves, operate and function daily life without help.. they have a choice and he made a very very bad one.. the baby didnt have the choice.. and his wife nor family made the choices he made either.. the media should have and still should leave them alone.. they cant answer for what choices he made.

"You can't judge people based on their actions, when you're judging yourself based on your intentions"Go to Top of Page

Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2007 :  2:51:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He had a head injury? Those are the worst. I once talked with a head injury expert and heard all sorts of horror stories.

I don't agree that because a person can get up in the morning and take physical care of themselves, that it means they know right from wrong.

You can be crazy as a loon, and still do the mundane things in life. The brain is complicated.

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2007 :  3:02:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
WF, I agree with that too.. however, I did say that I thought he had had a head injury from a car wreck.. and then the reply was made that it is not a reason.. and I can see why it wouldnt be a reason to do such inhuman to a baby or anyone.
The only persons that will be able to separate that from what he did will be the judges.. and a higher judge as well.

I dont think anyone who would do such even without head injury, is right or should be allowed to get away with doing these things.. they need help.. and reformed.. be it mental hospital or jail..

From what we have seen in the media.. woman who have done such things to their babies and blame it on post pardom..didnt get off the hook..

I have had children.. and had post pardom.. and never felt what those people who done such things have done..
I dont think that those cases are an outstanding number either.. my opinion is, that some very bad chemical embalances within people who could have children that were capable of doing such.. was a misfortune and very sad ending for the child when the child first came into life.. it is heart wrenching to me and a mystery of why this happens.. cause no matter what papers say.. doctors say and even judges.. I still dont get the jist of HOW this could happen in the world.

"You can't judge people based on their actions, when you're judging yourself based on your intentions"Go to Top of Page

HoneyBee

USA
4364 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2007 :  3:18:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Regardless of the incident I don't see why the media just can't let people alone. They distort a story and influence people's decisions before the facts are ever told.

I don't believe the 1st amendment was written for the media to hide behind.

3 things to remember if you get caught "Don't complain, don't explain, and for sure, don't ever confess!"Go to Top of Page

Betsy

USA
439 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  12:45:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Betsy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I might step on toes here, but I disagree with some. He did it, he does the time. I am sorry if he has had a head injury, he did the crime. I have sezuires if I stop taking my meds, would you want your loved one driving on the same road as me? Nope! I take meds and go to the MD for regular blood work to make sure my levels are well and do this after a long time of no seizures. It is responsibility. If he had so much brain damage why would he be left alone with the child? I think it is an excuse. Remember we are not saying anything against the family, it is against him, the criminal. Is it not true that although he comes from a great family and a family with the up most respect, the same qaulities are not seen in him and have really never been? All I am saying is people feel like they have to defend him, out of the respect for the family. I do not, he still has a great family, but as far as him personally. He tried to kill a baby. I see no excuse not justification for that.

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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  3:19:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How do you know his family didn't fail their responsibilities by either not getting him the proper medical help, or even placing him in a mental institution?

Crazy people don't usually know they're crazy.

The mother in Texas (Andrea Yates) would never have drowned her own children if her husband had taken her mental condition seriously.

The only time she understands the horror of what she did, is when they medicate her. Without medication, she thought she was "saving" her children from herself because she thought Satan was inside her.

She used to see things that weren't there and hear messages that she thought were directed to her.

When a person is that far gone, it's up to someone in their family to step in.

A seizure does not compare to mental illness.

The state of Texas became a laughing stock because of the jury's verdict to send a mentally ill woman to jail. You had twelve people with no medical training passing a sentence as if she was mentally sound. The medical community who really understands the issue was horrified.

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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Cherry Blossom

USA
18932 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  4:14:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Betsy what you said made perfect sense. Then I read what Wildflower said and it makes perfect sense also.

Ours is not to reason why, I'll leave that to the court and to God, but I dare anyone to leave him alone with that child again, because then I'd flip my lid.

Cherry Blossom

May neighbours respect you,
Trouble neglect you,
The angels protect you,
And heaven accept you.Go to Top of Page

Cherry Blossom

USA
18932 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  4:17:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
P.S. My brother and I came from the same family and are two entirely different people. Not to say one is bad and one is good, but a good family does not make one child one way and another child another way. We are just different. Just as my two children are.

Family has nothing to do with this man's actions.

Just my opinion, I may hear otherwise, but from not knowing them from Adam, that is my guess.

Cherry Blossom

May neighbours respect you,
Trouble neglect you,
The angels protect you,
And heaven accept you.Go to Top of Page

stardust74

USA
2131 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  4:37:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mental illness is bad any type of it from anxiety attacks and depression to schizophrenia. Most of these, like the types I have listed, can be handed down from parent to child or they could be induced by too much drug abuse or like this boys case a brain injury.
These people know that "something is just not quiet right" with them at some point, yes when you get so far then it's to late but earlier on in their condition, they knew something was wrong with them. Just like people with dementia know something is just not quiet right anymore. Me working in the medical field and fixing to go back into the medical field, I have seen people that have came for help and knew something was wrong. So this lady that killed her children knew somewhere down the line that she wasn't right and should have stepped up and got her own self some help. She killed her children so she should do the time. Yes she needs mental help and yes she needed it before it got to that point but she didn't and now she has the sentence.
Responsible people that knew they had these bad mental illnesses (I'm not talking about depression or mild cases like that) should not have children in the first place in my opinion.
And it doesn't matter how much money a family has on what kind of child they will spit out, you can't shove a checkbook up a va-jay-jay and say look baby we have 6 figures out here so you'll turn out to be a wealthy smart politician.

"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change".Go to Top of Page

why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  5:11:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those in the field or affected by mental illness do not like the term "Crazy".

WF I'm sure you ment no harm but many will take this the wrong way.

Those who have to deal with someone who is mentally ill should know that there are groups that can advise them on how to treat their loved one. There is just so much that you can do to protect them from themselves. Unless you can prove they are a danger to themselves or others in court, then at a legal age there isn't much you can do.

I'm not trying to say that some parents or relatives of mentally ill people don't act as enablers, just as these same type of people do drug users, but some times it's hard for them to do anything.

It is easy to turn a blind eye or in the reverse to become hardened to their actions. Such people say that they have done all they can do and must let the affected ones live their own lives. You can not, in my opinion, make someone truly mentally ill by the way you raise them, but you can raise someone who is mentally ill and not look over their actions and allow them to get away with bad actions. They may not always realise what the conquenceses of their actions unless someone is there to guide them.

What happened here is a shame and I pitty the poor family and specially the child. I hope and pray no perminant damage has been done to the child. The one who done this needs protection from himself and others need protection from him.

whyGo to Top of Page

nativelady

USA
11126 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  5:13:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit nativelady's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I decline to even make a statement about the "accused" except that I pray that help is granted to ALL who are in this sad situation.

I'm too blessed to be stressed!Go to Top of Page

Betsy

USA
439 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2007 :  8:03:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Betsy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Too many "mental" excuses used in cases like this. One person said leave it to the law and God; I believe that is the best idea. Whaever the outcome with him; my prayers to that child, not only with physical now, but mental later when he hears about what he went through when he was a baby.


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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2007 :  02:11:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why,

Believe me, I wanted to use a more intense form of the word "crazy" to get the idea across to people how intensely affected these people are. But this is a family forum. It's not used to offend, but for emphasis.

Betsy,

You believe that mentally ill people always know "something isn't right" early on. Is that just your opinion, or is this a hard and fast rule that they teach at medical school? Is there research in mental illness that shows this?

I'm being facetious because that is the most incredible thing I've ever heard.

BTW, if it could be proven that they "know" early on, then what if they don't have health insurance? 45 million Americans lack health coverage.

Look at how many Iraq veterans aren't even being helped with mental issues! And supposedly they are insured by our government!

You would love for mental illness to be black and white, but it isn't.

I don't know the man or his family, but if he is mentally ill, the key word here is "ILL".

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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stardust74

USA
2131 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2007 :  09:46:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wildflower, your post was directed to Betsy and it should have been directed at me as you were replying to me Stardust and not Betsy, Betsy said nothing for you to argue over.

"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change".Go to Top of Page

Betsy

USA
439 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2007 :  3:33:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Betsy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Let them argue, we all have views or this would be a pretty boring forum.
WF first of all, I am a Exceptional Education Teacher, that would mean I am pretty well educated on the mentally ill. Second, if you do not know the man or the family, how do you know he is mentally ill? I guess you never notice that it is the number one defense when one does or tries to commit murder. Funny we have never known of this being an issue before, he is so mentally ill his family turned him loose with a child? If he has such a brain injury that there was damage you do not think his parents would know? Some buy it, some don't, some are true, some are not.... As I said before it is not in our hands, but God and the laws, and oh now the docs.

Edited by - Betsy on 03/18/2007 3:37:09 PM

Edited by - Betsy on 03/18/2007 3:38:49 PMGo to Top of Page

purpleiris30

USA
40 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2007 :  7:39:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy.
Poor boy - if he has a mental illness, God can heal that just as he can heal cancer or any other illness. We need to pray for healing. If someone would attempt to take their child's life - then Satan has control over their mind and thoughts.

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2007 :  10:30:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do pray for the family.. and for him as well.

Anne Frank said,
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." I agree!
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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2007 :  10:58:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Second, if you do not know the man or the family, how do you know he is mentally ill?

I guess you never notice that it is the number one defense when one does or tries to commit murder. Funny we have never known of this being an issue before, he is so mentally ill his family turned him loose with a child? If he has such a brain injury that there was damage you do not think his parents would know?


Betsy,

No one on this board, including me, has diagnosed this man as mentally ill. We were talking about the NATURE of mental illness and whether or not the person could be held responsible for their actions IF they were indeed mentally ill.

I guess you didn't read my last sentence where I underlined the word "IF".

Whether or not there are scores of people who lie about being mentally ill to avoid punishment, is not really a good way to judge if this particular man is mentally ill.

That would be like saying . . . Well, MOST people accused of a crime are guilty, therefore they ALL are.

As for his family, who knows? Some families might be in denial that there is a problem, and some families might know there is a problem without really understanding the extent of it.

After all, in the journey to mental illness there is often an event that takes place that makes people sit up and take notice. Maybe this was that event for that family.

I am really surprised at what a rush to judgement there is here. I am hearing a lot of people who sound like they're ready to lock him up and throw away the key, but without knowing the facts.

All I have pointed out is that no one knows the facts, and there are a lot of absolute statements being made about the nature of mental illness that wouldn't stand up under scrutiny.


Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2007 :  11:09:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Those in the field or affected by mental illness do not like the term "Crazy".



Why,

I meant to tell you something else. I knew a guy in high school who went on to become a psychologist. Immediately afte college, he was working in a home for mentally ill children and adolescents.

He used to tell me that they used all the correct scientific names when discussing the child's mental illness with their parents. But, in private it was another story.

They used to use very "colorful" language to describe just how mentally ill their patients were. I think it was a way to emphasize to each other that they were working on a case where the person was so far gone. And it was a stress reliever.

Actually, one of the teenage girls that was staying there, escaped one day and wandered into my mother's and stepfather's home while they were out. She even took a shower in one of their bathrooms! In fact, I think she was still in the shower when the authorities found her and took her back to the home!

It was bizarre.


Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
Go to Top of Page

a teach


466 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  12:13:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This topic has certainly been run into the ground.

Good grief!

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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  12:20:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A Teach, I must agree with you about that!

GrayEagle
<:))))<><
If you are not part of the problem and not part of the solution, you have no business being part of the conversation (gossip)!Go to Top of Page

HoneyBee

USA
4364 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  1:15:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Heres my take on mental illness. It is a tool used to keep people from accepting responsibility for their actions.

YES, I KNOW there are different types of mental illness, but when you get to a point that you are tryiong to harm or/and kill someone well

IF IT'S BROKE, IT CAN'T BE FIXED.

Georgia Law allows that if a person tests 60 or below on a mental type test then they cannot be given the death penalty. They can however be incarcerated the rest of the life.

NOW EXCUSE THE HECK OUT OF ME! But if you can drive, dress and hold a job then you have to be running above 60.

You are taught right from wrong starting about 2 years old. If you are a capable of driving yourself to a place, committing a crime and then running from that crime, then you are a resonable thinker.

If anyone here feels sorry for HIM, then allow him to come and live in your home and you be reposnsible for his actions.

3 things to remember if you get caught "Don't complain, don't explain, and for sure, don't ever confess!"Go to Top of Page

pediatric77

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  1:23:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My sentiments exactly Honeybee.I agree

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  2:41:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nm

whyGo to Top of Page

Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  02:36:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Honeybee, you're talking about an IQ test which tests intelligence.

What does that have to do with mental illness?

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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