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taylor50-140

USA
2293 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2006 :  8:41:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Us & Them
+ He & She
+ We & They
+ Him & Her
+ Me & You
= Ya'll!!

Now, the BIG question - Who am I?

Life is a Journey -
Enjoy The Trip!
www.dorothytaylor.blogspot.com or www.granmagertie.blogspot.comGo to Top of Page

paprclip22mom

USA
8177 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2006 :  8:42:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's easy...You're Scooter.

Live to Ride. Ride to live.Go to Top of Page

taylor50-140

USA
2293 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2006 :  9:03:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Smarty Britches!!

Life is a Journey -
Enjoy The Trip!
www.dorothytaylor.blogspot.com or www.granmagertie.blogspot.comGo to Top of Page

paprclip22mom

USA
8177 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2006 :  9:34:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's me

Live to Ride. Ride to live.Go to Top of Page

Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2006 :  9:55:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why,

I do have an answer for you, but am too tired to write it right now . . . probably because I've given this a lot of thought, but find it hard to get across in two seconds.

Will try to answer this weekend though.

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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shucks


2145 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  1:17:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have lived in a lot of places, and felt the "Us and Them" syndrome
in all of them, in varying degrees. I consider myself a "fit in" type person and I never let it bother me, frankly because I never cared if I was accepted or not, I would live my life as I saw fit.

The 'Us versus Them" has its roots deeply imbedded in rural America.Because of a complex of influences all involving geographical and climatological determination and cultural preconditioning, southerners became committed at an early age to an agricultural economy and rural isolationist way of life. Southerners adopted this philosopy that tended to ward of external influences, change and material wealth.

Isolated from the mainstream of life, highlanders or mountain inhabitants , formed their own milieu of values, mores and traditions with the core being non acceptance of outsiders wanting change, because of their very suspicious upbringing.

This mountain group was cut off from progress and has retained beliefs, customs, and expressions in their speech with little or no acceptance of input from outsiders. This was a society with minimal social contact with outsiders, an illiterate base group with apprehension in accepting outsiders wanting change.

As late as the 1930's farmers were bringing their goods from Hiawassee, Blairsville and Blue Ridge to the market in Atlanta using horse, mule and oxen drawn carts and wagons along dirt roads. Times were difficult at best and the farmers were cheated out of most of their profits to the point of being suspicious of any outsider and communicated this to the "home folks".

The series of 4 books by Olin Jackson on the "History of North Georgia" gives and in depth account of this phenomenom and life in the mountains.

Cultural changes are difficult and are hard to change. It may take another generation to accept that this is one nation, and growth and change is inevitable, diversity must be accepted or our community will grow stagnant and die.

As a side bar, I am a rural southerner, born in one of the most poverty stricken areas of the South, a bootleggers heaven, where you would be shot if you breathed a word to an outsider, so I have lived this, but I rose above it, did very well in life and have no regrets as to where I came from.

Shucks


will grow stagnant and die.Go to Top of Page

a teach


466 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  5:37:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shucks, thanks for all the information and book reference.

I wish I'd lived here years ago and experienced life as you explain it.

An interesting account of history in Union County is in a little book of interviews with Miss Watkins, who lived more than 100 years and passed last year. Evelyn at the health food store in town is a relative of Miss Watkins and she has copies of the book.

Also, Zell Miller has written about being raised by a single mother in Young Harris. He was born in 1932.

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shucks


2145 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  5:48:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Teach, thanks for the info/ I love history and I will get a copy of the books you mentioned.

ShucksGo to Top of Page

taylor50-140

USA
2293 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  6:51:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to you both for the book ideas. As much as I like to read, and as much as I love the history f this stae, they should be quite interesting. Besides, I may just learn something so I can be an Us, or a Them, or whichever it's supposed to be! LOL

Life is a Journey -
Enjoy The Trip!
www.dorothytaylor.blogspot.com or www.granmagertie.blogspot.comGo to Top of Page

William R. Jenkins

USA
3545 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  8:19:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit William R. Jenkins's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Shucks, I think ,in your post ,you have set the stage,allowing me to say what I have wanted to for a couple of years and there is a good chance that you will protect me in the event of someone wanting to do me bodily harm,such as breaking my other arm.Mountain peolple especially and other people who isolate themselves become very territorial,which leads to mistrust for anyothers,not a family member or a member of the clan.When people become so, that means they are suffering from paranioa.The effects are minimal unless they advance to the extreme and hear voices or believe the fbi has gained control of thier brain.Most of us suffer from some degree of this mental illness.I have often thought about the possibility of this condition evolving to the point of being genetic.Many of the local ,whose families have lived in this for several generations seem to have the mentioned,such as feeling threatened by outsiders and having the opinion that they are superior than people from other areas,regardless of their actual state.I think I understand these people and being a humanist ,I have a natural respect for them.Shucks,the discription of your birth place reminds me of Eastern Kentucky.WRJ I believe I am right about this

William R.JenkinsGo to Top of Page

shucks


2145 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  8:35:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
WRJ, I have worked in Eastern Kentucky and in Hazard County, Ky. and believe me those people are territorial and flat out hate outsiders.

However, I was born in Eatonton, Georgia and reared in Haralson County, Ga. During the time I spent there, age 9 until I graduated from college , it was regarded as the moonshine capitol of Georgia because of it's close proximity to the Alabama border. Where I lived was isolated and outsiders were not welcome, but I survived. What I learned living there has stayed with me until this day.

I do not think anyone will break your other arm. As far as I am concerned, your insightful comments are always welcome.


ShucksGo to Top of Page

a teach


466 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  9:08:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do what the voices tell me to do.

In another life, I must have lived in the south and been part of a clan. There is a part of my thinking that totally understands how people become so territorial.

I was born in the wrong era, I've always wanted to go back in time when life was simplier and an adventure. I feel like I've been cheated out of exploring. Does that make sense?

Probably why I love history like you do Shucks.

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  9:16:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
O O O.. RAISING MY HAND .. SEE IT UP THERE^^^^ OO I do I do! I understand...


Doh-nah-dah-go-huh-ee Do da da go hv I

and "I heart Aretha Franklin!"

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  9:18:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hazard County!?? Wait.. is that .. ome.. confused onces more.. When you say Hazard County.. are you talking bout them Duke Boys Hazard County?

O the love of an a.d.d. brain? :( sigh


Doh-nah-dah-go-huh-ee Do da da go hv I

and "I heart Aretha Franklin!"

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taylor50-140

USA
2293 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  9:32:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mr. Jenkins -

I have lived in many areas of the country, from east to west, north to south. I have found this same type of mentality in almost all of the areas I have lived in. Sacramento CA seemed to accept anyone from anywhere with no problem, while Durango, CO and Bremen GA were about the worst. I haven't really been here long enough to judge yet. My days usually consist of going to work and going home, so there hasn't been a lot of interaction to go on.

Shucks -
I know what you mean about Haralson County. When I lived in Bremen,(July 1976 - April 1978) it was like if you were "in", anyone would give you the shirt off their back, if you were "out", they wouldn't give you the time of day if they had 9 watches! It took daddy a long time to begin to "fit" and to be trusted. The only way that he was able to do this(I think) was by involving himself in some of the local things, such as becoming a member of the local VFW, convincing people that just because we had California plates on our vehicles when we first arrived DID NOT mean we were from California, visiting the high schools and getting involved in our school(s). It took a while, and even after being there a couple of years there were still people who may speak, but they never really acted like we belonged there.

Teach - I too, have often felt like I was born in the wrong time! Not the wrong place necessarily, but definitly the wrong time!


Life is a Journey -
Enjoy The Trip!
www.dorothytaylor.blogspot.com or www.granmagertie.blogspot.comGo to Top of Page

shucks


2145 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  9:39:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
DOC, No, Hazard County has nothing to do with the Dukes. Hazard County is in Western Ky. and Harlan is the county seat. It was the site of the famous Coal mine wars in which so many people died and is very clannish. It is also the site of the Hatfield-McCoy feud and the biggest bootlegging area in the US. Probably still is. It is also the area of extreme poverty and backwardness.

If your kids give you trouble, take them on a drive between Jewell. W. Va. to Harlan, Ky and tell them if they don't behave thats where you will move and go to school. You will see a change in them.

ShucksGo to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  9:41:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LOL! Yes sir.. will keep that in mind for sure. hehe! Thanks for the clarification and the learning too :).


Doh-nah-dah-go-huh-ee Do da da go hv I

and "I heart Aretha Franklin!"

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shucks


2145 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2006 :  9:48:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have often wanted to live in the past. My favorite time and place would have been in the Cumberland Mountains of Virginia, around Maces Springs and have lived there from the 1930's thru the war years. At that point I would have loved to go to Berea College or Alice Lloyd College in that area.

But, life does not always put us where we want to go, so I wound up in Bremen, Ga. ( go Blue Devils) and West Georgia College.


ShucksGo to Top of Page

why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 :  08:39:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I visited Hazard County and Harlan earlier this year, I can see why there were bootlegers in that area, there is nothing else to do except dig holes in the ground.

The people I was dealing with were friendly as were the folks we met at the restruant where we ate lunch. This might be because we were with locals.

There is a clanish nature any where you go, I worked for many years in parts of Alabama and found that to be true there. Most of the areas where I worked were also a number of years behind the rest of the world in other aspects also. If you were white and had children they were expected to go to private school, and they made sure you voted. Some of the places I went had seperate entrances in restruarnts and such even up until the early seventies.

Trust is a mater for the individual, Yes, I do not trust someone else to come in here and make decisions that affect my heritage or the mountains. Many have shown that they have no idea or caring for the mountains by cutting all the trees and developing them. There is nothing so sacred that money can't corupt and distroy it.

Many of us are not so backward that we don't realize that progress in enevitable but be also can't see why it should be forced upon us by a vocal few.

I was just thinking about something, suprising huh!, when you look at the old Chevy place it does look kind of ugly, but, it may not be profitable for the owner to improve it. Would you spend a hundred thousand on your house or business if you weren't going to gain that much or more from your investment? Sorry for jumping around but that thought struck me the other day when going by there.

When I was growing up the chevy place had not been built long. There were houses across the street from the BR and the road in front of the BR was the main Murphy Highway. The chevy place eventually got old and a new one was built on the four lane and the old one sat abbandoned for some time, kinda reminds one of older Walmart stores doesn't it? The new chevy place was an improvement, but by inproving their facilities and location they caused a degradement of the old facilities. Can progress bring decay?

What Why How Who

Darned if I know.

why

Edited by - why on 10/30/2006 08:42:43 AMGo to Top of Page

shucks


2145 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 :  08:51:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Why, mountain top homes with a view may be beautiful and desirable, but it really destroys the pristine mountains. When you look at a mountain and see homes all over it, it scars the landscape. Destroying the landscape and mountains is not my idea of progress.

I thought that there was a law that prohibited building above a certain footage on a mountain. Is this incorrect or just not being enforced?

ShucksGo to Top of Page

why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2006 :  09:26:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Zell's mountain protection act would have protected a lot of these mountains had it not been watered down by greed and politics. The problem with the act was the altitude specifications which limited much of the Suches area, (although I personally don't think that was a bad idea, but it did a diservice to some property owners in that area). What should have happened was the altitude specifications could have been changed to the veration for the surrounding area, if you restricted building at 3000 ft. you may restrict building in the valleys in some areas, but if you restrict the building on areas that rise 500 ft or 1000 ft higher than the surrounding terrain you lessen the affect on the property owners and still protect the surronding mountains.

When you can walk down a gated forest service road for a mile or so and then hear noises and look and see someone building a home 100+/- ft away then you know something should have been done.

I know how much I talk about folks being able to do what ever they wish on their own property and to that I say that most of these areas would have been left forest had it not been for the greed of a few developers. Some of this land was government land until back in the late sixtys and early seventies and somehow much of it was traded as arranged by politicans and speculators. A lot of what was private land then and now would still be undeveloped had the people who worked hard and acquired the land years ago been still in charge of it. Most has been sold off after the old folks died out by kids who don't realize or don't care how hard their folks worked and sacraficed to acquire and keep up their land. I once knew a man who had worked hard up north for many years so he could buy and keep both the family land and some he acquired around it. A developer came to him and told him how nice a resort or attraction his land could be made into and offered him a great sum. This mountain gentlemen told the developer,"I'd rather give the people around here this land than sell it to you". Many of the older generation had feelings for this land, they loved the mountains and the fields, they cleared the creek banks and picked the rocks up in the plowed ground. Look up in the mountains of a clear day and think how much this site is worth and then think about a house staring back at you, how much did the person who pay for the opertunity to look down on you?

why

Edited by - why on 10/30/2006 09:30:24 AMGo to Top of Page

Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2006 :  4:34:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why,

This isn't nearly the answer to your questions I wanted to do, but it's something.

I don't think most newcomers want large shopping centers.

Anyway, maybe it would surprise you to know that if I were a big-money developer, I would build something different that the usual suburban developments that are going up.

I would build the same houses, but I would build them with a COMMUNITY FARM as part of the development. This would preserve farm land and make the development more self-sufficient.

No one person would be responsible for running the farm; it would belong to everyone.

I saw one community on TV that did this. They were families and the parents had jobs to go to (kind of a yuppie community). The community hired a manager to oversee the farm, and the families took turns doing farm chores on a rotating schedule. The kids learned where eggs and meat and vegetables really come from. Since the work was divided into chores the parents could do after work, it was feasible.

Other than that, the homes were typical nice homes. In that community, they placed the farm at the center of the development.

It's not a new idea; it's happening in some other places.

Anyway, if I had that kind of money, I would do something like that in a heartbeat.

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2006 :  4:38:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW, talk about providing some good jobs for locals!

The development I mentioned that hired the farm manager, also gave him his own house in the neighborhood, in addition to a salary. All the families contributed.

Think of how many people with farming experience there are here!

I really love beautiful houses, but I HATE to see farm land disappear. This is the answer.

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2006 :  4:47:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a related idea:

http://www.spiritworking.org/news/com_farm.html

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
Go to Top of Page

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