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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  6:40:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Outrage as Australian Leaders Tell Muslims to Fit In."
CLICK HERE

I submit this should pertain to anyone, not just Muslims, who come into a country. Learn and use the language, learn and use the customs, learn and obey the laws. In other words.....assimilate and become part of the country where you are living.


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Sweet N Low

USA
457 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  7:39:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very well said Gray, I agress with you 100%

S.. N.. L..Go to Top of Page

mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  8:06:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shhhhhh! We can't discuss politics outside of B'ville. Remember??

**There is no truth except the truth that exists within you. Everything else is what someone is telling you**Go to Top of Page

GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  8:44:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oops! Admin, please remove if necessary. Sorry.


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ShadowMan

USA
4158 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  8:52:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit ShadowMan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So let's change it to fit into the limitations here. I think there's an echo here of what Why was talking about previously in another topic (forgive me, Why, if it was someone else).

Here's Gray's statement, with edits "I submit this should pertain to anyone...who come into a county. Learn and use the language, learn and use the customs, learn and obey the laws. In other words.....assimilate and become part of the county where you are living."

There's been a number of statements elsewhere about how folks that have lived here for years and years are not accepted as locals. I think the re-worded statement above may be a view into why - they didn't try to come in and fit in, they tried to come in and change it to better fit their idea of what they wanted - largely based on where they came from.

I suppose that crosses into the realm of WildFlower's argument about only changes offered by locals being accepted as legitimate change, versus that proposed by non-locals. But that too is impacted by the statement above, as those who have become a part of county where they are living are more likely to see it from a viewpoint that the locals would espouse as well.

Shadow

This is my kirttimukha

Edited by - ShadowMan on 09/05/2006 8:53:29 PMGo to Top of Page

mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  8:54:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
oh boy, I can see this getting out of hand!! LOL Hopefully not.

**There is no truth except the truth that exists within you. Everything else is what someone is telling you**Go to Top of Page

fawn

USA
2223 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  9:22:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit fawn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So, I think you are saying....When you move here, become a local. Then whatever changes you think are needed are probably more in line with what the "local, locals" want. Have I confused it? Maybe the old advice of "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" applies.

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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  10:04:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Shadow-man!

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William R. Jenkins

USA
3545 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  10:24:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit William R. Jenkins's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The claims that many people come to this area to change things (what ever that is)for their own personal benefit is a myth. There are a number of reasons.The cry of "they want to change everything"is the excuse that they can all understand.I know at least one-hundred people who have came from Florida,none of them are interested in any changes.What they are interested in though, is their rights ,under the laws. That's my opinion WRJ P.S. Most of them,comming from Fl realize that they will feel the unwelcome sign.

William R.JenkinsGo to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  11:29:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

So let's change it to fit into the limitations here. I think there's an echo here of what Why was talking about previously in another topic (forgive me, Why, if it was someone else).

Here's Gray's statement, with edits "I submit this should pertain to anyone...who come into a county. Learn and use the language, learn and use the customs, learn and obey the laws. In other words.....assimilate and become part of the county where you are living."

There's been a number of statements elsewhere about how folks that have lived here for years and years are not accepted as locals. I think the re-worded statement above may be a view into why - they didn't try to come in and fit in, they tried to come in and change it to better fit their idea of what they wanted - largely based on where they came from.

I suppose that crosses into the realm of WildFlower's argument about only changes offered by locals being accepted as legitimate change, versus that proposed by non-locals. But that too is impacted by the statement above, as those who have become a part of county where they are living are more likely to see it from a viewpoint that the locals would espouse as well.

Shadow

This is my kirttimukha

Edited by - ShadowMan on 09/05/2006 8:53:29 PM


Aboslutely agree with this stance Shader. And I agree with Maddy too.lol But it is the truth and it may tick us off to hear the truth at first but its still facts that are gathered by real life happenings to prove itself.


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  11:57:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

The claims that many people come to this area to change things (what ever that is)for their own personal benefit is a myth. There are a number of reasons.The cry of "they want to change everything"is the excuse that they can all understand.I know at least one-hundred people who have came from Florida,none of them are interested in any changes.What they are interested in though, is their rights ,under the laws. That's my opinion WRJ P.S. Most of them,comming from Fl realize that they will feel the unwelcome sign.

William R.Jenkins


Mr. Jenkins, I dont think Shader nor anyone said ALL people wanna change what Blairsville is.. and I agree.. not all folks wanna change this place they choose to come to. I do agree tho that there have been people who come here and put the damper on outlooks and whats worse is when ya get at least 100 people from all over with the attitude that - this is nowhere land and by golly being it isnt up to their standards.. they wanna make it.. cause there aint no one there that matters are they woulda done it already.. instead of seeing the traditional way of life that everyone is ok with and who have not been demanding already because... its the way of life for those who always have known it and its not killing us or them..

Not all change is bad.. and not all change is good nomatter what you want to reference it to.. be it locals, move ins, or things and places within our area..

Before anyone hollers whats a local again like before time and time again.. a local to me is someone who lives here and love it here.. who is content and happy to be blessed to live here and stay thru out their lives... and of course what else do you call people who were born and raised here? They are indeed locals... and dont get mad cause people use the name of non-locals or move ins.. what other politically correct term would you perfer people use? Not being a smart elick lil cuss about that either.. I just dont know why people get bent over that and TERM it so it looks like locals call move ins or non-locals are saying bad words..


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  05:22:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I like the term "transplant" Being transplanted from one place to another to you can thrive in a better enviornment.

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William R. Jenkins

USA
3545 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  07:51:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit William R. Jenkins's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Doc,I have never contended that all the native born people object to others living here.I will gesstimate that the number is about twenty- five percent,you aren't among those.Do you think it's insulting for people to be referred to by the negative terms they are subject to? I can understand why some people may reject others,becuase of behavior or attitude. I sure was glad when some neighbors moved away.My main feelings and what motivates me to write this is that I want all people,regardless of where they were born,to be treated fairly.Isn't that supposed to be the America way of doing things? When H. Cook was in office,he stated,and it was published in the NGN that this is a christian community.Maybe Harold was wrong,to often there has been evidence that the citizens are not practicing what they believe or preach.The solution for me is simple,and that is to leave all of the bickering, hate, jealously,ETC. And that is my opinion. but what is just as important,what is yours.WRJ

William R.JenkinsGo to Top of Page

why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  09:01:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some one who comes here and keeps an out of area tag will never be a local. Some one who comes here and isolates themselves from the ways and attitudes of those here and of the heritage here will never be a local.

Just because we may disagree doesn't mean that I can't like and accept you as a neighbor. When that disagreement becomes a way of life and the purpose of life then the problems begin. If we remind each other of our differences each time we meet, then we will never find common ground other than thinking the other one is wrong and foolish. I would not expect my neighbor to change were I to move to some other area or other country, I feel that it's my responsibility to addapt. In working in different areas I have found that if I addopt the local customs (as long as I don't have moral or legal objections) I will enjoy my stay there and accomplish my tasks much easier. If I approach a local person in the area I am working and say, 'I need to do so and so", and then tell them they are doing what ever they do wrong, then I probably won't get very far.

Transplanted people are similar to transplanted plants, they are fine unless, like kudzu they try to take over. I saw a recent article in the AJC (I think) about non-native plants that flurish in a garden and zoo but must be constantly watched or they would over grow the garden and distroy the overall look and atmosphear of the native plants. Are all plants that are transplanted this way, no, as not all transplanted people are that way. I feel that we have had a lot of very good people move in here and so many have made great contributions to the area. In fact in many instances the transplants have been more concerened about preserving the local history and historical sites than the locals. Several local businesses have been started by transplants that have helped the local economy.

Just as America was built by immagrants from many nations, so has Union County been built by people who have moved in here from other areas. May family originated in the Carolinas some where and moved here in the 1800's. But we also must remember that each culture that is made a part of the mixture brings not only its good but also its bad. The many countries repesented brought the labor and know how to build America, but they also brought in Opium, whiskey making, slavery (although the Indains already would capture people from other tribes and use them as slaves), taxation, and the desire to take the land for their own at the expense of the Native Americans.

It is your right to disagree with me, it's you right to vote your beliefs, it's your right to voice your opinion, it's your right to expect equal representation as a CITIZEN of Union County. Just owning land here does not make you a citizen, really living here and taking part in everday life and understanding the overall atmosphere of the area makes you a citizen, more than that it makes you a part of the flow and ebb of the area. Take down your posted signs and put out the welcome mat. If I make eye contact with you I am going to speak to you or at least acknowledge you, please do the same with me. Remember, as I read in some little funny story recently, you may drive a 50 thousand dollar car and have a 20 thousand dollar boat but the man in overalls you just met comming out of the bank may own a 100 thousand dollar combine that he uses twice a year or 100 thousand dollars worth of tractors and equipment that he uses three to four months a year. He also may have in that bank all the money he made selling off one of his farms to you or your neighbor.

Those old boys dressed in camo and driving 4 wheel drive trucks are the only thing keeping the deer from eating your plants in your yard, they also built your house, paved your roads, taught your children and run some major companies when they are were not hunting.

That older lady not dressed in the most stylish dress and the older gentleman in his overalls and tatered hat probably raised their children on more sweat in a day and less money than in a year than you produce in a month. They used what was available and what they made with their hands. What they weren't able to produce for themselves, their neighbors could and trades were made. May be these people here are set in their ways, maybe some of you (and me) could learn a lot from them.

Better stop now as this has become a book instead of a reply. Guess to sum it all up, If you want to be wanted, try to be someone who someone would want.

why

Edited by - why on 09/06/2006 09:12:42 AMGo to Top of Page

honeybear cubs

USA
1436 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  09:05:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, now as a recent "tranplant" (by the way, LOVE that description Gray ), I can honestly say that I see the "local's" point on this. DOC has a good point, not all change is bad, and not all change is good. And, Mr. Jenkins, yes, totally agree that all should feel welcome. Honestly, I haven't felt anything but welcome since I came here. Sure, I know there are some that are sighing inside when they ask where we moved from and we say "Florida". To some, I feel like I am saying a dirty word. (And, I joke about it myself...) However, everyone that I have spoken with personally on this forum AND my neighbors in both the community I was living in before I moved into my house, AND this one, EVERYONE has been very welcoming, and helpful, and has made me feel like I'm not alone here. And, to those that sigh, I can understand their concern about the town being changed. We, personally, picked to move here because this is what we want...we wanted to get away from where we were, not change it into where we were. If I wanted to do THAT, I would have stayed in my town in Florida! But, I got out of there for MANY reasons, some very personal (family reasons) and others very obvious (such as the hurricane issues). Then, there is the BIG fact that TOO many were coming in from OTHER places and trying to change it to where they came from. Only problem there is it's not just another state or another town...it's from other COUNTRIES...and I am a very open person regardless of race or creed, etc...but not when they force it on our way of living. So, yes, I can feel for the locals, too. I am not a threat, because I do not seek any change other than whatever change would normally occur over time anyways (the kind of change even the locals welcome). I am glad to be a transplant to Blairsville, and even though my kids are transplants too, they will be more like locals, growing up in this community. And, they are a big reason we chose this, too! So, to quote Fawn's quote "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". I do not have a problem with that, I came here to be part of "The Blairsville Folk" and I'm becoming more and more of one every day, and loving every moment of it!

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William R. Jenkins

USA
3545 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  09:47:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit William R. Jenkins's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I believe that the native people in this county are very good and I have much respect for them.I fell that there is little difference in the local and the newcomers.The differences can be brought to a very minumum by understanding each other and I think that posts such as Why's are a contributing factor.If people are happy that makes me happy also.I have been contented for the last ten years living in Union County,if not I would have left long ago.One thing that I am very proud of is that I have been able to convince a few people on the forum that because a person is an athiest,doesn't mean that person is bad or evil and don't be so quick to judge a person only by a religous conviction. Those were my main objectives for joining this forum. WRJ That's my opinion

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electra

USA
97 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  12:02:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit electra's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I keep thinking about the Borg for some reason...

Remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.Go to Top of Page

William R. Jenkins

USA
3545 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  12:25:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit William R. Jenkins's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can you please explain to which or what Borg you are referring.WRJ

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ShadowMan

USA
4158 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  12:48:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit ShadowMan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I thought the same thing, electra, when I first saw the word "assimilate". Any person familiar with Star Trek (TNG and on) I suppose pretty much associates that word with them.

Mr Jenkins, the Borg are a race of cyborgs from the TV show and movie "Star Trek" universe. Their favorite phrase is:
"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and power down your weapons. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."

Shadow

This is my kirttimukhaGo to Top of Page

William R. Jenkins

USA
3545 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  1:12:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit William R. Jenkins's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks,the shadow knows all,I know of the Borgs on startract,Bjorn Borg, Borg-Warner,Borgward autos.What I was looking for was a comparsion.Thanks again. WRJ

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Cherry Blossom

USA
18932 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  1:58:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When we die we can't take the land with us that we own, we may keep it in our family for a long time, but eventually it will probably be in someone else's name before the end of time.

I came here because I love it, not because I own it. Jesus himself had to move from place to place in order to be accepted. He lived many places and was frequently not welcome.

Seems to be a way of life for some to make others feel that way. I myself welcome all! For those who demand change, it probably won't happen just as you'd wish, just like the alcohol vote, but some change is gonna happen whether I like it or not.

It's in God's hands really. However since Mr. Jenkins does not believe in that type of thing, I kindly say it's a matter of fate and the will of the people who both live here now and will live here in times to come and their ability to actively fight for what they truely want for this town.

I myself am happy and content here as is.

Cherry Blossom
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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  1:59:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As far as changes go, no one is really sure what constitutes "good change" and "bad change". It seems to be something you only find out when locals start getting mad about a change they don't personally like.

There were people in Murphy, NC who hated the Humane Society. As far as they were concerned, there was no need for it. Animal welfare was not on their priority list. I've heard their "the way it used to be" speeches. The county quit giving them any monetary assitance.

When I had a Pit Bull show up, the Humane Society could not take it because it had attacked another dog. Animal Control would not handle it and the guy in charge complained about all the "regulations" you have to follow today. A lady at the courthouse suggested that I just shoot it.

Meanwhile, people were moving in from elsewhere and wondering what on earth to do about all the stray dogs roaming their neighborhoods.

I also knew a guy who complained that you couldn't have junk cars piled up in your yard anymore. He blamed newcomers on that development.

So, exactly how do you define what change is acceptable and what is not?


Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben


Edited by - Wildflower on 09/06/2006 2:01:34 PMGo to Top of Page

Cherry Blossom

USA
18932 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  2:01:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
P.S. I totally agree with Gray's original point....if you come to live in America speak our language and follow our countries rules.

Amen!

Cherry Blossom
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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  2:19:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shadow,

Does this mean you're a Space Trek nerd?

Wildflower

Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me.
But deep down, I know that's not true.
Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
~Robert Orben
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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  4:15:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
WF, naturally a good change is anything I favor and a bad change is anything I am against.

Really, I for one think a change that lessons the desireability of my living here is bad and anything that improves my desire to live here is good. The problem is that you and I (or x and y) may look at the same change with different views. If it were only the two of us then we could do like Ellie Mae Clampet and offer to 'rasle it out, but since many are involved, we must find a way to settle the matter. To me the vote is the answer, not who has the loudest voice (or fattest wallet) when dealing with the county government. I personally like junk cars (in reason), but I don't like big dogs comming in my yard. I like local shops, but I don't like Walmart. I like the sole commissioner form of government, but I don't like a multi-person commission.

I like small cabins hidden in the mountains and houses in the valleys, but I don't like houses hanging on the sides of the mountains with all the trees cut. I like fishing boats crusing down the lake, but I don't like jet skis cutting up the water. I don't mind crusing motorcycles, but I don't like crochrockets comming around a curve flying and leaning so much you think you are going to take their heads off.

I've said that to say this, if it bothers me it can't be good, just like if it bothers you it can't be good. There has to be a meeting point. Change for the sake of change is almost never good.

The locals get mad if a transplant suggests something they don't like just like the transplant gets mad when the local suggests something or opposes the transplants idea. We are pretty hard headed here, thats why we have been able to survive in these mountains, you might be able to talk us into something, but you can't make us do it or to like it when and if it gets done.

Read this as many times as you like and it still solves nothing. Much of the opposition is a matter of attitude and perception. We didn't know we were doing things so wrong for so long until someone came in to tell us.

Many transplants came here to escape something, wheither it was the over population of the city, the cold of the north, the storms of Florida or the influx of "them people", well to many locals they are "them people" they might not be a different race or national orgin but they are not "us". If some condition made it so bad that I wanted to escape from where I lived then I would be willing to accept the loss of some of the things I may have gotten used to where I left.

Had to quit writting and get back to work.

Does any of this make sence??? Some body tell me.
why

Edited by - why on 09/06/2006 4:19:20 PMGo to Top of Page

mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2006 :  4:59:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It makes sense. It's how you feel. I've made some friends who are "natives" of this area, but most of my friends are from other states & towns here. I've TRIED to make friends with some of the local moms, but they are just as bad as their daughters, they turn their noses up at you like you're mud.
I've lived in a bunch of places & never had this feeling of "you're in my town" mentality before.
I'm with you WHY on the walmart, but I think there does need to be multi commish here. It's gotten too big & it's not going to stop. The sprawl, they are a coming!

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