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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  2:03:59 PM  Show Profile
Maddy,

That is extremely out-of-the-norm for a Methodist church. So unusual, that I think if a Methodist newcomer visited and heard such a message, they would be floored.

Why,

I know the difference between a denomination's stated beliefs and what an individual church practices. In general, I consider a "church" to be made up of the individuals who attend that church.

In the report that was cited, the donations were designated as coming from individual churches. Someone in the church had to spearhead an effort for the members to come together to donate money to the cause. Otherwise there would be no specific dollar amounts attached to specific churches.

So, it is a church effort.

Otherwise, it would have been every man for himself and the report would have shown individual donations. Even so, I bet a lot of church-goers would not have thought of a donation, except for the effort their church made in soliciting them.

WildflowerGo to Top of Page

coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  4:24:38 PM  Show Profile
Our neighbors are members of the coosa methodist church and they belong to a wine making club too. They always brown bag their own wine out for dinner.

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  4:35:14 PM  Show Profile
If the majority of individual members of the church make the decission to back the No vote then don't they have the same right as those who want the Yes vote. They are no different than any group that gets together to promote or oppose anything, they just happen to be a group of church people. May be they arn't afraid to admit in public that they are against it as much as those who are for it are afraid to admit so in public. Are those who are for it ashamed to say so in public?

If you are for it put your signs out and let everyone know.

By the way I personally have not donated directly to either side, but would have added to the No side if asked.

whyGo to Top of Page

coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  5:12:32 PM  Show Profile
Who wants tacky looking old signs on their lawn, besides our covenants prohibit signs.

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  5:35:19 PM  Show Profile
What was the old song...signs,signs everywhere a sign....saying hooray for my side. Do this don't do that can't you read the signs..

whyGo to Top of Page

coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  6:00:25 PM  Show Profile
Yes, I remember it. And we have far too many of those stupid signs out in this county. It looks tacky!!

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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  6:42:59 PM  Show Profile
Like Choestoe1 said:

" It seems the “Citizens for an Alcohol Free Community” is really “Churches for an Alcohol Free Community.”"

The money was donated in the church's name, not the individual.

Maybe the individual voting "No" isn't comfortable with having their own name in the report?

WildflowerGo to Top of Page

Honoria

USA
50 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  11:36:55 PM  Show Profile
I wasn't going to respond, but I guess I will put my two-cents in the plate.

A responsible person who wants a glass of wine or a frosty mug of beer with a meal is not going to spend the money it would take to get knock-down drunk. Just won't happen. It'd be too expensive to do so at a restaurant. Or anywhere when you have to pay more than the cost of a six-pack or a bottle of wine for a glass or mug of "cheer."

Regarding "wine" versus "wine." C'mon -- do a word search of your favorite Bible translation and you'll find more scripture telling the reader to have a touch of wine (but not to get drunk) than you will find scripture telling the reader not to imbibe. If Jesus didn't turn the water into real wine, why would the comment be made to the bridegroom that he had saved "the best for last" (which just wasn't the kosher way to provide wine back then).

Some of you want to believe "sola scriptura" as long as it agrees with your interpretation but are quick to say "oh, the Bible doesn't mean what it says" when what is written in the Bible disagrees with your interpetation. You can't have it both ways. What you can have is the fruit of the Spirit which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. - Galatians 5:22,23.

And if you are a Christian and if you have self-control, then you can have a beer or a glass of wine with your meal and know that you're not going to get drunk. If you have self-control you can opt not to drink a glass of "cheer" and not feel "tempted" by same.

I'm going out on a limb, but I believe that people who are weak and who cannot control themselves are the types of people who want to shove their "rules" down others' throats. Compare it to sharia law which islamists insist is the "only law of god" and they'll kill you if you don't live by their sharia law. What's the difference between islamists and certain 'christians' who try to shove their interpretation of the the laws of God down the throats of Union Countians?

Well, for one, they don't "kill" you with the sword, but they can do a fairly good imitation with their tongues.

Food (or Drink) for Thought.
Honoria

It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not to deserve them.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)Go to Top of Page

nativelady

USA
11126 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  06:59:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit nativelady's Homepage
Boy, I have been away from this topic for awhile. Lots of Christian bashing going on here. I am sure Jesus is SOOO happy and smiles upon those who are doing this.

Tacky? Well, Let's see, I dont know whats more tacky, seeing someone who cant stay away from the "stuff", or the color blue in a yard. Someone FINALLY got the nerve to steal mine. I now have TWO at the end of my drive. Feel free to steal these, but be sure and pick up the dogs that the theives are leaving behind. Sad isn't? Steal a sign and drop off a dog, one died of Parvo right at my steps, this next one will go down also. Oh, and one killed one of my kittens so thank you for your kind gesture in stealing the sign in the process!

It's a proven thing, alcohol is a mocker. I see mockery, I've waited for this to finally arrive in this topic...and it has formed itself here in the last posts. Mockery!

And as for those who are so appalled at "preaching hell fire and brimstone"...All I can say to this is, If you have Jesus in your heart and you believe with all your heart he is Lord and confess this with your mouth that you have died out to the old and in with the new, Heaven WILL be your home." If you refuse, Hell will be your home. No, I do NOT believe a Born Again Christian who drinks is going to Hell, I believe in Once saved always saved, but I also believe that the majority of people today are WANTING to have their ears and hearts not "stinged" with the words "HELL" "Eternal Damnation", but for those who like to sling the verses in the Bible about how they "believe" wine is exceptable, then they will also find in the same chapters and books, that Hell will be their home if they haven't accepted Jesus. To accept doesn't mean to walk an isle, and say "Oh, I think I'll give this a try..." There is a conviction in the heart, a drawing power to WANT to accept the Lord.

The last few posts have sickened me, literally, especially how people water down religion and make their own rules according to what they WANT to hear or believe. Ever heard the story in the bible about the wheat and the tares? They both look the same, but once you look on the inside, wheat have "fruit"...Tares is empty, lifeless.

Why would someone want to bash religion just to get Alcohol in, and I will even say Why would a Christian want to bash a drunkard, Judge not ye be not Judged. RIght? Well, People, we've all stepped beyond our boundaries in this topic.

Once again, I will vote NO, because of what it will bring and the conviction in my heart that alcohol is a mocker and causes much corruption in too many homes. I've read the debates over cigarettes to tacky signs, what this all boils down to is, We will all see...

Now on to Liberty donating $10,000 ....yep! Raised my hand in a "Yea" to it and we all supported it. But now go talk to the man who got hit by a tree and was cripped, we gave him the same amount! And (Pssssst! He wasnt a member of a church) We dont solicit in church, nor do we sell. We give. And God has blessed our church with a building that is PAID for in FULL. And we had 250,00? Or so left over, to use JUST for these very things, helping our community, WE ALSO GAVE TO THE WOMENS SHELTER! AND NO WE DO NOT HELP THE HUMANE SOCIETY BUT.....HUMAN NEEDS COME FIRST!

You all have a blessed day! We help support certain missionary groups also. And all the elderly and sick, are always taken care in our church. Especially, when we know the money will go to the needs. God is Good, All the Time...He will Prevail....All The Time....

Have a wonderful day!

"Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."Go to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  07:56:30 AM  Show Profile


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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MiddleAgeCrazy

USA
1435 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  08:02:09 AM  Show Profile
I just personally wish that the churches had stayed out of the issue and let the people make up their own minds.


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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  09:40:16 AM  Show Profile
I agree!! Let adults decide (adults do not steal signs).

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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  09:41:07 AM  Show Profile
Native,

It is not "Christian bashing" to tell it like it is.

You once said that it made you "ill" when people said the churches were trying to influence how people voted. You implied early on that it was inaccurate. But look what we have here . . . a report that proves that is exactly what is going on.

As for your threatening us with HELL, it means zilch to me. I won't even get into biblical interpretation on that one.

Go threaten someone else.

WildflowerGo to Top of Page

fawn

USA
2223 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  10:39:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit fawn's Homepage
However the vote goes, I'll be glad when it's over. This has gone on way too long. I doubt anyone's vote will change due to pro or con ads, mailings, billboards or what's been said on the forum.

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topaz

USA
3621 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  10:44:09 AM  Show Profile
Nodding my head in agreement Fawn!!

~*Topaz*~Go to Top of Page

Admin

USA
1484 Posts
Blairsville.com Administrator

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  11:08:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage
Please remember to address the post, not the poster, in these political forums. And that we have another forum area for discussing religous topics.

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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  11:28:39 AM  Show Profile
I agree with Fawn. I will be glad when it is over and the signs, ads and mailings that I have received will not influence my vote!

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choestoe1

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  12:48:07 PM  Show Profile
If anyone else would care to take the time to check out the "facts," they can go to the Probate Court office and get the same report from which I printed my information. It's a little insulting for some to suggest that I made up the information.

The individual who gave the $100. donation listed in that report was named, but I did not include his name because I consider it totally appropriate for individuals to make such contributions.

I am very pleased to hear that at least one church did vote on making the donation, but I have to wonder how many others really had any vote on the issus. (I have been told that in at least one instance a handful of "fired up" individuals took the action without the knowledge of a majority of the congregation.) I, also, would like to know the conditions under which such a vote (or votes) were taken. (Was adaquate prior notification given to the congregation announcing that such a vote would be taken and was the vote by a ballot allowing persons to vote privately? The possiblility of intimidation in such a situation is great without a "secret ballot".)

I find it interesting that it is the relatively new (historically speaking) denominations that object to this issue. The churches that have been around for thousands of(or at least several hundred) years, do not seem to have the same views as these newcomer "born agains." Did the "new on the scene" churches get some revelation the rest of us have not heard about on how to translate and/or interpret the Bible? You know there are scholars, really educated and Christian committed people who have been working on this for the last fifteen hundred years or so?

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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  1:02:56 PM  Show Profile
choestoe1, I for one, want to thank you for the information you printed for us. It was very informative! I do have a friend who is a member of the big church in town. He says he will be voting no, even thought he drinks beer every single day after work.

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  4:15:43 PM  Show Profile
Mr. Honoria, Do you not think that those of us who do not want alcohol sales believe that those who DO are the ones described as you say "believe that people who are weak and who cannot control themselves are the types of people who want to shove their "rules" down others' throats".

This county has done well all these years with out alcohol sales and many other ideas that have been forced upon us in the past few years.

As for the Bible, If I doesn't mean what it says it's not worth the paper it's written on.

Is "the fruit of the Spirit" the same as the Spirit of the Fruit???

I too will be glad when this is over, I have heard all the "Facts" pro and con and still feel like I did when this discussion started.

whyGo to Top of Page

coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  5:10:57 PM  Show Profile
I do too, that is why I think the money wasted on all the signs and advertisments was a waste of money and should not have happened.

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Wu


1452 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  8:24:24 PM  Show Profile
I tell ya...I'm still not sure at all how this vote will go..

Fortunately the voting is anonymous...no one can Browbeat the yes or the no voters. I really believe most folk see through the B.S. And see the best for this county and it's people.

wu

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Honoria

USA
50 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  9:15:09 PM  Show Profile
Now why, why would you think that those who want the Freedom to Choose would not be able to control themselves? Even God gives us humans the gift of free will. God gives us the choice to decide by allowing us to have access to both "good" and "evil" yet some here do not want to allow a person to actually have a say-so in the decision to drink or not to drink. There's no "choosing" if you don't have the Freedom to choose. How can giving a person the Freedom to Choose be considered shoving someone's "sharia" down another's throat? We have Freedom OF Religion (not "from") and that means that the playing field should allow us all the opportunity to decide which religion or belief "fits" us -- or which doesn't. We have many choices in religious beliefs. No Jehovah's Witness demands that coffee be banned from consumption at restaurants. But they don't drink coffee. Jehovah's Witnesses can choose to do so, but they choose not to. They have that Freedom. Why should a Baptist or Pentecostal demand that alcohol be banned from consumption in restaurants (here in Union Co.)? Are the Baptists and Pentecostals AFRAID of alcohol?

Do you take cough syrup? There's a lot of alcohol in cough syrup. Do you take Geritol Liquid? There's a lot of alcohol in Geritol Liquid. Do you gargle with a mouthwash? Check the ingredients.

What grates my nerves is the hypocrisy exhibited by so-called WWJD christians. If you want to talk the talk, then you need to be honest about your own hypocrisy if you don't walk the walk. How many buy gasoline at gas stations which sell wine and beer? "OH, but I'm not contributing to the consumption of beer and wine." Oh, yeah, right. You are contributing to that gas station staying in business so it can sell beer and wine. AND they sell cigarettes, which we all know cause various forms of cancer. AND some even sell condoms, right out in the open, for any and all types of licit and illicit behaviors. So whether you buy the wine or the condom or the cigarettes, you're still supporting their sale if you purchase gas at that station because your purchase helps keep that station open.

But, but, but, but. Yeah, right. You don't think of it that way, do you? At least start being honest to yourself about just how "christian" you really are. And no excuses about "I'm not perfect, just forgiven." I'm not sure God looks at your misbehavior (and sin) that way.

What Would Jesus Do? He never rammed Himself down anyone's throat. He offered The Way, The Truth and The Light. And He allowed the hearer to make his own decision. God doesn't want anyone to perish in Hades, a place created only for Lucifer and his minions. But God gives us the Freedom to Choose. Choose this day whom you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15 Joshua didn't force anyone to follow him. He said "choose." And that's what the YES votes will allow people to do.

Honoria

It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not to deserve them.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)Go to Top of Page

GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  9:42:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage
Hurry up and come July 18th!

GrayEagle
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living; the world owes you nothing; it was here first." Samuel ClemensGo to Top of Page

fawn

USA
2223 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  10:25:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit fawn's Homepage
Talk about beating a dead horse! Whatever is done or said at this point will change no one's mind. July 18 can't come soon enough for me. Hmmmmm...guess will have the winners gloating and the losers whining for a while after that.

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