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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  11:51:13 AM  Show Profile
Basicly it gets down to this, I don't want it, you (meaning whom ever) do. What ever happens happens.

I'm not going to get the Towns County - Union County arguement going except to say that as teenagers we once turned the county line sign around, after we got back to Blairsville we got to thinking that it made it look like we lived in Towns County so we hurried up to the county line and turned it back around.

Can't have bad statistics can we, we don't want something we use for revenue to look bad??

Wu, I'm sorry but I couldn't tell if you were for or against??

WF, I never said this was about stand alone bars now, but I believe we are opening the door to future allowance of stand alone bars or package sales. It's just like gun control, how much is enough.

Those who are against feel this is being forced upon them by a certain few, just as those who are for it believe that they are being deprived of a privilege by those who oppose sales.

You may be right on the city vote, I hadn't given that much thought. That would be a lose and a win for both sides.

When this is over I hope we can all settle down and go on to other things we can agree or disagree on with out hard feelings and antimosities. Ain't (yes ain't, that words fits here better) none of this worth losing a friend over.


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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  2:48:53 PM  Show Profile
So 96 rock is running a alcohol awareness and tho its not for Bville its for the national awareness and the upcoming holiday. The stats are, 2 deaths due to alcohol consumption in the USA every hour due to drinking and operating a motorized vehicle. That adds up to 24 deaths within 12 hours.. not trying to sway against alcohol here in the county but those stats need made aware of.


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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AlphaDraconis

USA
179 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  3:08:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit AlphaDraconis's Homepage
The fact that alcohol contributes to countless deaths can't be disputed, but that also can't be a realistic fundamental point to object to its sale when many other deadly things (guns, cigarettes, cars, spray paint, Tylenol) are still sold. Can someone explain why it gets special treatment and debate?

And given that Union County has been a dry county longer than its had cars, DUI itself seems like a weak argument to say why alchohol is fundamentally bad - there must be something else to it.

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  3:21:50 PM  Show Profile
See Alpha, I am soo on the fence on this altogether.. I guess cause its not a big baddy issue and I am not immune to alcohol and occasionally I sip here and there.. then again.. I do understand the stress factors people who are against it are dealing with.

Id be more than likely accurate to say that cig. kill twice as much? Im on the fence there too see.. Its not that I agree to disagree either way as much as I have tried to keep an open mind.

Id rather a person drive a mile to taste alcohol than chance driving 11 miles one way and taste 3 beer! I know people are gonna do it regardless..
Its no difference in actuality other than the long haul of a drive and that many more miles to be on the road.?? make any sence?

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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AlphaDraconis

USA
179 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  3:40:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit AlphaDraconis's Homepage
I completely could understand a stance to seek to reduce and limit people's access to harmful things, whether motivated by religion or not. How can one really say "please don't think of ways to make this world safer for all of us?" But I do have a harder time understanding how people can pick and choose specific products to control. I suppose it seems like a bit of selective vision - especially if a person can stand up and say "you have no right to tell me I can't buy X, but you can't by Y." If X and Y both can be used to kill people, then whose morals are more important? Or should both accept the argument for the greater good, and both give up that thing they want, but also harms?

We have to remember that we're trying to control people's behavior by controlling access to objects. But only the people themselves can control their behavior. Those that need something, get something.

"When alcohol is outlawed, only outlaws will get drunk. And it's easier to catch a drunk outlaw than a sober one."

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  4:52:51 PM  Show Profile
AD - "And given that Union County has been a dry county longer than its had cars, DUI itself seems like a weak argument to say why alchohol is fundamentally bad - there must be something else to it."

Not quite so, If you research you will find out that this county had sales years ago, I'm not sure which, either the pawn shop next to the jewelry store or the one next to it sold beer (legally) years ago, I'm not sure where else but there were other places. Did you know that the old Bray Church building was a dance hall and there were many fights there, don't know if alcohol was sold there or not.

The arguement for other things being legal and why is my personal poison not sounds alot like the arguement that is used by those who would like pot legalized. They reason that alcohol is legal why not pot??

I can buy a hunting rifle why not a hand granade? Why add one more thing to kill us, we seem to have enough already. I know that is streching things and I say it tongue in cheek.

I don't believe that anyone on the forum would ever do anything to indanger anyone else on purpose. I also believe that most of those who would go to a restaurant and order a drink with their meal would be no bother to anyone, (look at Coosa and her brown baging, I don't think they have harmed a sole) but I can see that opening this door will make the door to even more forms of alcohol sales easier to open.

I guess I'm like a little kid, I don't want it and I want my way.
It may be easier for me to talk about this because I'm not tangled with right or wrong, morals or religion, I just hate to see Union County follow the path that other counties have followed and live to regret not saying my piece. I hope someone cronicals the period before and a number of years after to see the results if this passes, or if not also.

Sorry about the spelling.


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AlphaDraconis

USA
179 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  6:01:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit AlphaDraconis's Homepage
quote:

Not quite so, If you research you will find out that this county had sales years ago, I'm not sure which, either the pawn shop next to the jewelry store or the one next to it sold beer (legally) years ago, I'm not sure where else but there were other places. Did you know that the old Bray Church building was a dance hall and there were many fights there, don't know if alcohol was sold there or not.

Why, thanks for correcting me. What time period was that?

quote:

The arguement for other things being legal and why is my personal poison not sounds alot like the arguement that is used by those who would like pot legalized. They reason that alcohol is legal why not pot??

I can buy a hunting rifle why not a hand granade? Why add one more thing to kill us, we seem to have enough already. I know that is streching things and I say it tongue in cheek.


Hmm, you're right, it does sound like the same argument. I suppose the only way to reconcile it is to compare the harm against the good. I suppose it could be said that while both grenades and alcohol both kill, grenades are far more effective. The argument to legalize marijuana claims that the benefits are greater than the harm. The arguments to avoid gun control is the same.

So, given that perspective, the argument to vote no is not "Alcohol Kills" but actually "We perceive that the benefits of alcohol are outweighed by the risk of alcohol." The same line for hand grenages, and the opposite for guns. I can't make it work for tobacco with a straight face though, since I don't sell cigarettes.

The saddest thing about this debate is the first DUI fatality to occur after the vote will be a big headline, no matter which side wins, and the loser will say "I told you so."

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nativelady

USA
11126 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  7:07:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit nativelady's Homepage
quote:
Not quite so, If you research you will find out that this county had sales years ago, I'm not sure which, either the pawn shop next to the jewelry store or the one next to it sold beer (legally) years ago, I'm not sure where else but there were other places. Did you know that the old Bray Church building was a dance hall and there were many fights there, don't know if alcohol was sold there or not.


I remember my FIL telling me that. He pastored that church for many years, well until 1986, when they united with First Methodist.

And Yes, the sell of alcohol was here in Union County many moons ago. That's been before my time I know.

"Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."Go to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  11:23:20 PM  Show Profile
That Lady was it called white lightenin? Moon shine? whats the difference? I aint sure? That stuff was potent! Now there aint no fine sippin with that.. it kicks ya in the tale feathers when ya aint lookin! Yep, my family.. well you them Gurts.lol ;)

Wine was a big thang that a great aunt of mine made in her day.. and it werent welches grape juice I dont care how much it looked like it! I was about 7 or maybe 9? heck I was a lil gal and I thought hehee!!!! watch what I can do... I scrubbed my tongue with a toothbrush.. I scrapped my tongue with a butter knife.. It was nasty!

I do believe her spit can looked mighty inviting rather than the taste of that wine! Something about ferminting??


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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AlphaDraconis

USA
179 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  11:42:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit AlphaDraconis's Homepage
Perhaps some folks can put up some signs that say "Don't fight Use, fight Abuse!"

Just a thought, since the fears are legitimate, but the focus doesn't seem to be in the right place. Perhaps rather than debating whether or not people should be allowed to drink, the debate should be on how to help those that have a problem?

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  12:24:56 AM  Show Profile
Yep.. my daddy has a problem still. He has been to 4 rehabs.. 1 was a 30 day, then a year later a 31 day process and then a 14 day and then another for 4 days and he signed his self out cause he said that it was all mawmaws fault for talking him into goin to the last one.. he didnt realize that the floor above him was an insane asylum and he said he thinks mawmaw talked him into goin there to drink more.

Mawmaw doesnt drink but she does work for Miller Brewering and she makes great money.. but she also got Daddy a job there YEARS UPON YEARS ago and well.. they will send you to rehab 2 times and then youre fired. He was fired! Strangest thing with that is they give the employees two cases of beer every friday on payday.. now.. that doesnt add up to me..

Needless to say,the rehabs do work and so does AA and counciling.. so does ones ability to CONTROL THEMSELVES! People have to want to put forth effort to control their drinking..

We have a meth rehab place, so why not offer rehab here and why dont the churches offer some kinda program for alcoholics and drug abusers? Ive questioned that in the first portion of this forum and still have yet heard of a church that does this for the folks around here. :( It is needed because there are people that need it locally!


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  12:50:34 AM  Show Profile
I've been away all day and came back to some posts that made me laugh.

Alpha, you are so right. I wonder what the smokers would say if we outlawed their cigs? Okay, I don't wonder . . . I know they would be up in arms.

Why, you cracked me up when you said you just want to have your way.

Now on the subject of alcoholism, a lot of alcoholism is genetic, so it's not a simple matter of willpower for those people. Some people have the "alcohol gene" and others don't.

Alcoholism has devastated the American Indians because they didn't have any genetic defenses against it.

For some reason, I don't think I have the alcohol gene AT ALL. I'm not that attracted to it.

Oh, and Why, you quit disparaging Towns County, will ya? I love it here.

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MiddleAgeCrazy

USA
1435 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  06:27:22 AM  Show Profile
Was encouraged last night...... I went to a rather large party on the north side, approximately 200 or so folks and they all seem to think the referendum will pass with no problem. One even said he had a blue sign because of pressure, but was gonna vote for it. I was gonna blast him good, but didn't cause I hope he does vote for it. I just can't imagine anyone giving in to something like putting up a sign when you don't agree with it.

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  10:20:27 AM  Show Profile
quote:

Alpha, you are so right. I wonder what the smokers would say if we outlawed their cigs? Okay, I don't wonder . . . I know they would be up in arms.

Now on the subject of alcoholism, a lot of alcoholism is genetic, so it's not a simple matter of willpower for those people. Some people have the "alcohol gene" and others don't.

Alcoholism has devastated the American Indians because they didn't have any genetic defenses against it.

For some reason, I don't think I have the alcohol gene AT ALL. I'm not that attracted to it.

Oh, and Why, you quit disparaging Towns County, will ya? I love it here.

Wildflower


Again for the smokers, its outlawed to smoke in a restr. now.. ;) So thats already been set upon us smokers!


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  10:21:48 AM  Show Profile
And you are right about the genetics. I am scared of becoming an alchy because when I have drank, it was to easy to say.. and another.. :(


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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William R. Jenkins

USA
3545 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  12:08:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit William R. Jenkins's Homepage
Has an alcohol gene been isolated and identified? I don't think so. My own personal observation leads me to believe that introverts are much more likely to become alcoholics versus extroverts. WRJ

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  4:21:45 PM  Show Profile
Actually yes, genetics and history does show in my dads side of the family to stem on and on.. so does A.D.D. and heart disease.


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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Jeepbuddy

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  5:41:33 PM  Show Profile
There are so many pro's and con's on this issue. But most of my life I have struggled with the type of thinking that if someone has a problem, or something bad happens, then we must make a rule to prevent it in the future. If I want to have a drink now and then, I don't think I should be "punished" because some people can't handle their alcohol. I mean, think about it, whether its alcohol or any other issue. The many get "punished" for the sins of the few. My brother slipped out of the house one night without permission and we all were grounded for a month. Does that sound right?

"We must scrupulously guard the civil rights and civil liberties of all citizens, whatever their background. We must remember that any oppression, any injustice, any hatred is a wedge designed to attack our civilization." FDRGo to Top of Page

Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  7:45:58 PM  Show Profile
The smokers (finally) can't smoke in restaurants, but they can buy their cigs anywhere they want to. Maybe they should have to waste THEIR expensive gas and drive to another county?

And, a little wine has proven health benefits, but a little nicotine has none.

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  8:17:10 PM  Show Profile
Now you living in Towns Co dont have that to worry with and I dont have to worry that I cant buy cigs here either.. so I guess we are both speaking of something we neither have to worry with


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  8:33:20 PM  Show Profile
Ah, DoC,

My whole purpose is to make people think.

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2006 :  08:39:36 AM  Show Profile
Jeepbuddy, there is nothing existing now that stops you from drinking as much as you want to, you just can't buy it in restaurants. WF, very few restaurants sell cigs now, most used to have machines which are now same as nonexistant.

As a former most anything you can mention that is bad for you, I would be mad if I was a smoker, not so much for not being able to smoke in restaurants but because of the more restrictive laws in some areas that limit smoking in bars, clubs and even on the street. I can't see the problem with smoking in bars or clubs, you know what you are there for anyway and a little smoke may help with the atmosphere.

As far as Towns County goes, our rivalry goes back years and years, it's funny though that back in our teenage years we would fight and feud with each other but would step in if Murphy got involved with one or the other. Some of my friends still today are from Towns County, but they sure have let it get over built and uncontroled.

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2006 :  09:09:49 AM  Show Profile
LOL! Why, that rivelry has dated way back and yes.. when I was in school.. it was the bandana thing. One put red on their rear view mirror of their car while the other put blue so yeah.lolrof! Funny isnt it? And like I said, UBB is from Towns Co.


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2006 :  10:05:44 AM  Show Profile
Why,

I LOATHE smoking because . . . smoke drifts.

If someone is drinking in a bar, I am not drinking along with them. If they are smoking . . . I am smoking right along with them. (secondhand smoke)

My ex was a chain smoker - 3 packs a day. It will be a cold day in hell when I would ever marry a smoker again.

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daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2006 :  10:35:28 AM  Show Profile
I can understand that.. I dont smoke in my house.. I do respect non smokers..

I too have this issue of why I chose to marry hunny. I had been married to an alcoholic and got the crap beat outta me when he was drunk but sobber he was a nice enough person soo I chose not to marry someone who depended on alcohol or who depended on it for a good time. Hunny has had maybe 3 times in our relationship that he has actually drank and one was just the other nite when we tasted some foreign beverage that our friends brought to us.. so I understand your reasoning and preferences.. I dont hold it against anyone who drinks or else my poor dad would never hear from me even but I chose not to have to deal with a drinker who depends on it in my home.


We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.
Sir Winston Churchill


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