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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2006 :  03:09:39 AM  Show Profile
Why,

Actually, I've been to several restaurants in the area that didn't have bars attached to them, but either allowed brown-bagging or had a license to sell wine or beer.

To me, it seems normal for people to be having wine or beer with dinner, even though most of the time I pass on it. I just can't imagine feeling so much discomfort over it. It seems so limiting.

If you lived in Europe, you'd be miserable. It's much more a part of daily life there.

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Eddie


49 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2006 :  03:22:20 AM  Show Profile
Regardless of why Lamar has put this on a ballot, which is where it belongs, I am just glad that we have a choice on this. Far too many decisions that affect us all are too often made by a few or sometimes only one person. And no, I am not speaking of local politics only, but State and Federal also. I am just thankful to have a vote on this and will live with the outcome and so will you all. So, I hope all will count their blessings and go out and VOTE.

Eddie

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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2006 :  11:53:19 AM  Show Profile
Will it be put on the ballot for the city to vote on?

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Flower Child


18 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2006 :  5:00:19 PM  Show Profile
quote:

It bothers me when I am in a restaurant with a screaming child sitting next to me. Should restaurants not let children in because it might disturb other people?



I don't think you can compare apples with oranges. A child is part of a family. Alcohol and the behavior that goes along with the effects are somewhat different than a child screaming. Don't you think? You must not have any children or any tolerance of children. Does your children come to your home and laugh and play if you do? Or your grandchildren? If not, then I would assume that there is a known personality in the relationship of your thoughts on children.

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fawn

USA
2223 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2006 :  7:25:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit fawn's Homepage
I can't think of anytime that I have witnessed inappropriate behavior due to consumption of alcohol at a RESTAURANT. I did not say BAR because that is not a restaurant and the vote has to do with people buying able to purchase and consume alcohol in reaturants in Union County.

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  08:42:20 AM  Show Profile
I too am disturbed by loud children in restaurant, most of the time I feel this is a lack of discipline. Some one should really discipline the parents as its mostly their fault.

I'm also against juke boxes in places to eat, I think this detracts from the meal and makes me uncomfortable.

Fawn I guess you didn't read all of my post, this IS about Bars, have you been to Mike's Seafood since he moved into his new place??? I guess someone told him ahead of time to build a bar?? Don't get me wrong, I love the food at Mikes and have no problems with Mike or his employees. Go to most of the chain restaurants that serve alcohol and they will have a bar. Hooters is a restaurant as is Applebys and other such places, I know of friends in other cities that have had to be picked up because they had too much to drink in "restaurants". Luckly they had enough sense to call or have someone call for them.

The least we should strive for in allowing drinks is that one must order a meal before being served a drink.

Wildflower, I've also been to many places that allow brown bagging or have a license to pour that do not have bars, but these are usually up scale restaurants. As for living in Europe, I have no desire to even visit there. I haven't been everywhere in America yet. I'd be pretty miserable in those countries that think drinking warm ox blood in OK also.

I know that I'm not changing anyones mind here and I can assure you that you arn't going to change mine.

Actually if memory serves me right, Lamar stated when he was running that he would NOT sell alcohol licenses. May be I'm wrong but if this passes he will be breaking that promise.

Too each his own, I will live with the out come of the vote now that it is forced on us. I think that if we are going to vote on this we should be able to vote on the other ordinances put into affect lately and if you need to post signs that you are requesting a pouring license then you should have to post signs you are going to distroy a mountain side to build houses. People on this forum complain about the litter on our road sides but overlook the litter hanging on the mountain sides. Sorry this is off topic, I'll hush now and go on about my business. I shouldn't start my day this way anyway.

Don't know why


why

Edited by - why on 04/24/2006 08:45:10 AMGo to Top of Page

Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  09:50:16 AM  Show Profile
Why,

I was just thinking about your posts about people getting drunk in restaurants.

I've never personally witnessed anyone who was obnoxiously drunk in a restaurant. If anyone was drunk, they must have been keeping it to themselves. ;)

I've lived in Miami, Orlando, Dallas, and now here, and I've always eaten out a lot. In the cities, most of the restaurants served drinks and had a license. The restaurants I go to here either have a license or allow brown-bagging.

I have NEVER had a dinner in a restaurant that was interupted by anyone's drunk obnoxious behavior. If it did happen, I would expect the manager to escort the person out of there.

Now, I didn't hang out at Hooters, so I can't say. As to places that are ONLY bars with no restaurant, I didn't do that very often unless there was some reason to be there. Even in the places that were strictly bars, if there were people who had too much to drink, it rarely turned into obnoxious behavior.

Since Blairsville isn't voting on stand-alone bars, I guess the bar scene isn't a worry.

I just don't think most people go to restaurants to "get drunk".

But, like I said, I don't hang out in places like Hooters. You have to keep in mind what sort of mentality a place attracts. I go to the places where people are looking for good food and the wine is part of the dinner.

I have been far more affected by screaming children or loud people on cell phones in restaurants than drinks. ;)


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mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  10:02:29 AM  Show Profile
I'm only speaking for my husband when I say, "WHAT? But, Hooters has good wings"!

**There is no truth except the truth that exists within you. Everything else is what someone is telling you**Go to Top of Page

coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  10:26:07 AM  Show Profile
I have to agree with loud people on cell phones too. I don't dislike children and I understand that small babies will cry, but a 4 year old , screaming at the top of their lungs, while mom and dad ignore them, is a problem. I eat out more than most of you, six nights a week at a restaurant where there is brown bagging. I have never seen any inappropiate behavior at any time in the 22 years I have lived here.

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  10:49:02 AM  Show Profile
Drunk is drunk, obnoxious or not. I can be bothered by some one who has too much to drink wheither they are obnoxious to the point of being removed or not. Some people get just a little louder and just a little more liberal with their language after a few drinks, they may not be drunk but they are still a problem. A happy drinker may be just as bad as a mad drinker. I've been around cryers, fighters, huggers and hitters. I've been around some that would give you the shirt off their backs, but they were still pests. I have always heard that there is nothing worse than being sober around a drunk unless its being drunk around a sober person.

The point is not just their actions in the "restaurant" but also after they leave. Their actions may never have a direct affect on me but may harm someone else. If it were only being bothered in the restaurant while eating that was the problem, I could just stay away from that by not going to that restaurant. Its also the results that bother me. I have to be on the road with these people and so does my family. I have been around several places in the past that just used selling food as an excuse for being able to serve alcohol. May be I've lived too wild a life in the past and have seen too much. I been to places in border towns (not that kind, I'm talking to the border of wet/dry counties and/or state lines) that reminded you of places that search you to see if you've got a knife, if not they give you one. These places serve food, usually only a few dishes, but food. You figure out how to tell if a place is selling the right percentage of food.

Hooters wings are very good and worth going in to eat but, they would still be good if they didn't serve alcohol.

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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  11:20:57 AM  Show Profile
I don't think we are talking about people getting drunk. I have never seen that around here. When I was much younger, I have been to a few parties where people had too much, but that was a long time ago. I go to parties now, and I have never seen anyone get tipsy. Actually, I am all for having a liquor store here, but I don't really want them to serve it in restaurants, I would rather brown bag it!

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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  12:52:37 PM  Show Profile

Why, you have lived too wild of a life maybe. LOL

When I think of drinks, nice restaurants come to mind. When you think of drinks, wild places come to mind.

I don't know, I live in Towns Co. and we don't seem to have problems with crazy behavior in spite of all the places that serve alcohol.

You serve it in Blairsville too - they just buy it in Towns and brown-bag it in Blairsville.

Since I am not impacted by whatever Blairsville decides, I am not trying to change your mind; only to throw out some ideas about the issue.

WildflowerGo to Top of Page

why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  2:28:57 PM  Show Profile
I really don't enjoy being around people drinking when I'm trying to eat. It's just the way I feel. Just as Coosa doesn't like to be disturbed when eating. By the way, I was put off some when I first went to the Village and saw the table in the corner with the two wine glasses on it. I soon got over this as I observed the loving couple who would soon occupy the table on regular basis. I'm not a fancy restaurant person. The Village was fancy enough for me. I eat at some of the fancy type when I feel like it. I really don't care if we never get a Outback, Longhorns or such here. I'm more the Blairsville Restaurant type. Many will say that they go to a restaurant for the atmosphere, the atmosphere I like is where I can walk in and say hello to most of the people there. I would like a Ryans, or similar place. I'm kinda like Lewis Guzzard, never eat Bar B Que at a place with curtains. I have had some of my best food at some places most people might not even eat in. I've also had some of my worst food in places with candle light and beverage menues longer that their food menues, the $50 bucks a piece type place.

I thought they were breaking the law the first time I saw someone bring a cooler with beer in it into the old Fishermans Kittle. I guess I was wrong. By the way, if you never got to go the the Fishermans Kittle you missed some good food.

If you have read my past posts in other topics, you will find I have objections to most everything that will add to the already overgrown (my opinion) nature of, and add traffic to, our area. Let the Towns counties or ellijays or blue ridges or murphys have all the big city places, leave my area country. Just how long does it take to drive to blue ridge or murphy or to towns county. If I want something I can't get here then I go to these places. I really dont' care if the county loses the tax money, I can't base my beliefs on money. Money wise I stand to neither lose nor gain from alcohol sales either by the drink or the tanker truck. As far a drinking goes, I wish no one did it, I know thats not a real posibility, so drink what you will, but do it in such a way as it harms no one else. (no I didn't say I was being harmed)

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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  4:25:55 PM  Show Profile
I don't want chain restaurants either. I've had them all my life. I've mentioned before that I prefer one-of-a-kind restaurants.

Actually, I've begun to notice that more of the natives talk about wanting chains coming in than newcomers do!

Anyway, one issue I brought up before, but I haven't seen addressed is . . . what do you all think about the divided vote. I understand you are voting YES or NO separately on wine/beer and mixed drinks.

Is there anyone planning to vote YES to one and NO to the other?


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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  5:06:49 PM  Show Profile
Why, I think you are talking about me and my husband. We always sat at the corner table at the village. I don't recall ever causing trouble in my life. I guess it is strange, but I do not want chain restaurants to come here either because I think Blairsville has grown enough. I was thrilled when we got a chain burger place. I am planning on voting no, to both beer/wine by the glass and liquor by the glass. I enjoy eating locally and paying a reasonable amount for a meal.(and brown bagging my own) I have not been to Ellijay in several years, but I understand it has really changed.

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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  5:26:55 PM  Show Profile
By the way, I was put off some when I first went to the Village and saw the table in the corner with the two wine glasses on it. I soon got over this as I observed the loving couple who would soon occupy the table on regular basis. I'm not a fancy restaurant person. The Village was fancy enough for me. I eat at some of the fancy type when I feel like it. I really don't care if we never get a Outback, Longhorns or such here. I'm more the Blairsville Restaurant type. Many will say that they go to a restaurant for the atmosphere, the atmosphere I like is where I can walk in and say hello to most of the people there. I would like a Ryans, or similar place. I'm kinda like Lewis Guzzard, never eat Bar B Que at a place with curtains. I have had some of my best food at some places most people might not even eat in. I've also had some of my worst food in places with candle light and beverage menues longer that their food menues, the $50 bucks a piece type place.


Why,

You know, you've put words to an idea that's gone through my mind a few times in this discussion.

What so much of this comes down to is a true culture clash. The way a person grows up decides what they perceive as "normal" and "right"; anything outside of that is often perceived as "wrong".

From some of the things posted here, I have noticed that a lot of natives refer to drunkeness and to having witnessed it.

Newcomers just want to get some wine or beer with dinner and don't understand all the unrelenting focus on getting drunk.

Maybe growing up here has colored the views of drinking in a way that most city people can't relate to.

It seems to me that if you grow up in a small town dominated by churches that preach the evils of drinking, backed up by laws forbidding the sale of alcohol, you just never observe people having wine with dinner on a regular basis.

Wine/beer/liquor is presented all your lives as "the forbidden fruit" and something you must actually leave to county to obtain. It isn't presented in the context of being a normal companion to good food.

In such an atmosphere, where drinking is a "sin", those who want to taste the forbidden fruit drive to the nearest county with a bar. What will they see there? Other escapees indulging to excess. That's what they have been taught that drinking is - it's about getting drunk. So that's what they do.

If the only drinking you ever witness is people getting drunk and rowdy in a bar, then it perpetuates the churches message that's it's evil.

But for people who belong to other denominations that don't prohibit drinking (just the abuse of it) or people who live in cities, it's normal to see people having dinner and wine. People take pride in serving a wine that complements the food and will spend some time in learning how to do that.

My parents were not really drinkers, and myself and my siblings can take it or leave it. Usually we leave it. But, my parents never preached against alcohol and none of us ever had a problem with it.

Contrast that with a friend of mine in high school whose parents constantly told her how wrong it was to drink. So what did she do? She got insanely drunk the first chance she got.

As 16-year-olds, we attended a party where there was drinking. I didn't have any, but she got smashed. It had been arranged for her father to pick us up from the party. He drove me home before driving back to their home and she tried to act normal so he wouldn't notice that she was intoxicated. She told me later that as soon as I stepped out of the car, she threw up. Her parents were very angry at her and happy with me.

I certainly thought she was stupid. But even at that age, I felt her parents had it coming to them by presenting the subject the way they did. It ensured she was obsessed with getting drunk. Getting drunk was all she had been taught that alcohol was for.


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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  5:54:28 PM  Show Profile
You certainly make a very good point Wildflower and i agree with you. I was not taught that drinking was evil and I never even tried my first drink til I was past 30!!

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  6:00:47 PM  Show Profile
Coosa, I was definitely talking about you and your husband, I didn't know at first who you were. Later after getting involved with Blairsville.com I found out and saw you several times there. I wasn't ready to introduce myself.

Wildflower, you have made some good points, the average older adult in this area remembers when this county had beer sales. There were clubs and over the counter sales. There was a fair amount of trouble caused by drinking. No one thought of drinking with a meal except to get started on the drinking to drink.

You may also be correct about the younger generation, many have developed a taste for wine or beer with a meal. I also know of many who developed more than a taste for getting dog drunk also.

When I was 16 I could buy beer and malt liquor in Tenn. just across the line. By the time I was twenty five I had figured there were cheaper ways of getting sick.

I've been the designated driver for many years and its tought me that those drinking arn't having as much fun as they think they are and those around them arn't either.

Not growing up as a strict church person, I only went by what Granny or such said about the problems of drinking. I experenced it with relatives and such.

Got to go now, I'll try to talk more tomorrow about this and other things.

Night everyone, sweet dreams, may morning be given to you and may you have a brighter day tomorrow.

Just why

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Wildflower

USA
4528 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2006 :  10:13:39 PM  Show Profile
I would add that growing up in a city has a moderating influence upon extreme views.

If you grew up in a city and your family belonged to a denomination that frowned on drinking, you would still witness other people having wine with their meals in restaurants.

That is going to put the idea in your head that there is another side to the question of drinking. So the influence of your family and religion would be moderated some.

Nowadays, there are enough really great restaurants in the mountains that more and more people see wine being served with a meal. In the past, there weren't very many fine dining restaurants here.

Of course, that is still an American thing to regard wine as part of "fine dining" whereas in Europe wine is part of everday casual dining - because it's part of a meal.

I read that Georgia used to produce a lot of wine before Prohibition. Many vineyards were destroyed then.

One thing that bothers me about people saying they can just go to a surrounding county to drink, is that will push the true problem drinkers to drive longer distances after they leave an establishment.


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MiddleAgeCrazy

USA
1435 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2006 :  2:47:12 PM  Show Profile
I wasn't going going to offer my opinion, but I read all the pro's and con's, etc. An changed my mind. I've been in law enforcement since 1968, all but the last 7 years in the metro Atlanta area. I have never, Let me say it again, NEVER in all those years been called to any restaurant to restore order to a drunken brawl or to a loud obnoxious drunk. I'm sure there were some, just never heard of any from the nicer places. When drinks are the price of most entrees it cost too much to get fired up in Outback or Red Lobster and such.
An the revenue is good for the county and good for the city if we get such resturants. If anyone has too much to drink, we will get involved and again more revenue comes to the county or city in fines etc.
What is seems like the discussion is, is whether people drink for effect or just socially with dinner. I don't see people drinking for effect in Red Lobster. I feel like they should have that option.


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mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2006 :  4:04:13 PM  Show Profile
Well said, Mac. Thanks for your speak up on the matter. I think it does help when it's coming from someone who actually see's what's going on in the community.
I do feel that if the majority of people vote "yes" and it passes, then down the road there will also be the opportunity for sales in the stores. It's a domino effect.


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AlphaDraconis

USA
179 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2006 :  5:04:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit AlphaDraconis's Homepage
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but if you know what restaurants sell alcohol, the police know which highways to patrol for DUI, since you have to drive on certain roads to leave certain restaurants. As it stands now, it's anybody's guess where the next DWI driver will be in Union County.

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coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2006 :  5:42:07 PM  Show Profile
Oh but they do know, they can get plenty of DWI's if the cops just hang at the end of Mulky Gap on Friday and Saturday nights.

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Southern_Sue


61 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2006 :  4:57:02 PM  Show Profile
This article comes from the WSBTV.COM website today!!

Problem Drinkers May Consume Almost Half Of All Liquor

POSTED: 4:36 pm EDT May 2, 2006

Between 37.5 and 49 percent of the alcohol sold in the U.S. goes to those under the legal drinking age or those with alcohol problems, according to a study.

The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University found that those groups account for $48.3 billion to $62.9 billion in sales, based on data from 2001.

"Underage and pathological drinkers are the alcohol industry's most valuable customers," said Joseph A. Califano, Jr., CASA's chairman and president and former U.S. Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare.

Prior to this study, no research looked at the commercial value of these drinkers, CASA said in a news release.

The study also says that alcohol abuse and addiction cost the nation $220 billion in 2004. Cancer and obesity have estimated costs of $196 billion and $133 billion, respectively, the group said.

The group also reported that 9.6 percent of adult pathological drinkers consume 25 percent of alcohol drunk by adults.

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press.

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ShadowMan

USA
4158 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2006 :  6:04:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit ShadowMan's Homepage
Southern Sue, I don't understand what this WSB report has to do with putting the issue of selling alcohol by the drink up for a vote. We're not voting on the legality of alcohol. It's already legal and has been since Prohibition was overturned (because it was a dismal failure and made gangsters rich and powerful). Any problem drinkers in our area are already buying their alcohol. It won't change those numbers one whit. They're accounted for.

Instead we're voting on whether our government should get any revenues from the sale of alcohol in our restaurants. We're voting on being able to limit how much a patron drinks (which is not possible with brown-bagging). I think it was our Commisioner that pointed out that problem drinkers aren't going to be trying to feed their "addiction" by buying wine or a mixed drink in a restaurant because it'll be too expensive. They'll still be going across the line to the package store and stretching their alcohol dollars that way.

Shadow

This is my kirttimukha

Edited by - ShadowMan on 05/02/2006 6:11:30 PMGo to Top of Page

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