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fairplay

USA
36 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  4:34:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Millage as apposed to property values

We are constantly told by our leaders and the North Georgia News that we have the second lowest millage rate in the state and it is a true statement. However it has very little to do with how much we have to cough up for property taxes. Property values are the real key to the amount you pay. I will compare two counties at each end of the millage range to use as an example.

Union Counties millage is set at 16.122 mills
Hankock Counties millage is set at 39.63 mills (over double)

Average price of average 1 acre in Union County 20,000 40% taxable 8000
Average price of average 1 acre in Hancock County 1800 40% taxable 720

Union County 8000 at 16.122 mills 128.87 taxes
Hankock County 720 at 39.63 28.53 taxes

The point is if we allow property values to be pumped up our taxes will go up and we donít have the second lowest tax rate in the state. You are being mislead.

(Note) The values per acre were determined by several real estate companies in both areas.


sonny

mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  6:14:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where the heck is Hancock county?

Shaken, dirty, 4 Olives.Go to Top of Page

coosa creek

USA
39313 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  6:18:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good point. Property that I bought 3 years ago had taxes of about $23. When i paid the tax this year (raw land) it had gone to about $200 for 1 acre.

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mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  6:23:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But, WHERE IN THE WORLD IS HANCOCK COUNTY???
Shadow, is this apples to oranges kind of thing? How many people are in that county compared to ours? Is this county anywhere near North GA? Or, even in GA??


Shaken, dirty, 4 Olives.Go to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  6:26:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Uhhh Its in Ga somewheres Im sure cause its in the GON all the time.. hunnys hunting magazine thingy!

Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith.

Saint Francis of Assisi
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topaz

USA
3621 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  6:28:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hancock County is Sparta...about 4 hrs. south of us.

"Donít be afraid to be yourself, the people who matter donít care;
the people that care donít matter."

~*Topaz*~Go to Top of Page

mad4martinis

USA
13730 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  6:30:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fairplay, let's be fair then... 4 hrs south of here? HELLO? It is like comparing apples to oranges.

Shaken, dirty, 4 Olives.Go to Top of Page

ShadowMan

USA
4158 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  7:42:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit ShadowMan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sonny is trying to make an argument that it's the county government that sets the going rate for the price of real estate.

In reality, the market determines the value of the property. If it is someplace desirable (and what could be more desirable than beautiful mountains?), people are willing to pay more to aquire a piece of property than they would be willing to elsewhere.

Hancock County is not exactly a place that people are pushing others out of the way to move to and buy property. A University of Georgia report noted "For example, Hancock County has the highest millage rates in the state, yet it is one of the most impoverished with low incomes, low educational attainment levels and high poverty rates..

The reappraisal process going on here is not to set the value of property, but rather to update the county tax rolls to reflect the value already determined by market pressures. The "battle" is over what people think the market will bear versus what the government thinks (based on consultants advice and opinion).

Another item of interest in comparing Hancock with Union:

"From 1996 to 2000, Hancock County had an average of $12.4 million in long-term debt outstanding each year, resulting in an average per capita debt burden of $1,340. This amount was greater than the $55 per capita average held among similarly-sized counties with outstanding debt during the period."

From 1996 to 2000, Union County had an average of $51,602 in long-term debt outstanding each year, resulting in an average per capita debt burden of $3. This amount was less than the $129 per capita average held among similarly-sized counties with outstanding debt during the period.


Shadow

This is my kirttimukha

Edited by - ShadowMan on 02/07/2006 7:43:33 PMGo to Top of Page

fairplay

USA
36 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  10:25:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tried to make my point as simple as I could. I am tired of our leaders telling us how good we have it because our millage rate is the second lowest in the state when it has nothing to do with the money we pay out for taxes. It's the market that is at fault. Hancock was there when the Indians still controled Union land.

sonnyGo to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  10:35:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well being this topic is called taxes, we have to pay that profit that we made off of the land we sold in Laurel Brook. YAY.. we knew we had to and from specin.. and we just knew we had to and Mrs. H&R reminded us too and I hope she knows that she made our day.lol

Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith.

Saint Francis of Assisi
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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  09:06:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
fairplay, are you willing to sell your property for what you think it is worth,as you beleive it would be worth less with out our county government.

I grew up here and the property values were so low that when a timber cutter purchased the timber off a piece of property the owner made them take the property also so they wouldn't have to keep paying taxes. The property values you so dislike were as a result of people coming from the outside and offering too much for land because they were used to the high prices where they came from.

We could have BOTH high property values and high millage rates, would that make you happy?????

whyGo to Top of Page

MountainThinker

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  09:41:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm sorry, as a lifelong resident, I see Sonny's point. Commissioner Paris, like Commissioner Gooch before him has constantly and relentlessly made the comment that we have one of the lowest millage rates in the state. The obvious and simple reason he does that is to imply we have incredibly low property taxes (in real dollars) at an equal comparison to the rest of the state.

That is not intellectually honest nor is it true. In real dollars (as I for one have yet to be paid in millages), Union Co. is among the top 30 most expensive counties out of the 159 counties in Georgia. Now to a common person, that is certainly a different tone and implication than what one is led to believe when one hears that we have the second lowest millage in the state of Georgia.

I don't believe it the point of this topic was to say anything other than that. The government of Union Co. may or may not be taking too much money in, and how they spend it is also an area of debate, but again, that is a seperate, though perhaps related debate.

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of property owners don't understand the tax figuring calculation/millage rate concept. Whether that is a good thing or bad, someone's fault vs. self, again, a seperate issue. Because of that collective lack of knowledge (and the gov't has never made an exceptional push to teach/inform the public on the formula and how it works), people infer (as the commissioner hopes and intends for them to infer) that 2nd lowest millage in the state = 2nd lowest real dollar taxes in the state, or at the very least very low by comparison, since again, most people do not own land here as well as outside of this region in GA.

Commissioner Paris is an intelligent enough man to know and understand the weight and tone of his comments, as well as their implications, and what he is trying to imply as well as the manner in which he 'massages' the verbiage, lacks intellectual honesty/integrity to the point that he is intentionally misleading & deceiving the majority of Union Co. citizens on this particular issue, which happens to be the number one aspect of local government that most affects and involves the local citizenry.

Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam.Go to Top of Page

why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  10:27:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MountainThinker, where do your figures come from that we are amoung the top thirty in the state in compairson?? Is that in dollars per person, per acre or per??

The southern part of the state is in no way compairable to north ga, a lot of the middle to southern part of the state is either agriculture or timber land, how many people pay outragous prices to retire in south ga?

I know of counties in middle ga that don't even have E911 service, they still have a 911 number but its not tied to location as ours is, most of the county roads in these areas are dirt (not even gravel). Most of the schools are small, old and ill equipped.

I don't agree with a lot of what Lamar has done, he's trying to turn this in to an over regulated area just like the larger cities, but I don't think he is near as bad as you or Sonny-fairplay would have everyone to believe.

whyGo to Top of Page

MountainThinker

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  12:15:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why,
Dollars per person (i.e. the tax DOLLARS paid on a decent 3 or 4 bedroom house in which one raises a family), the realtime valuation of what comes out of an average family for the taxes on their personal property, the thing that most effects an individual. And if it is fair for the commissioner to compare Union Co.'s millage rate to the millage rate of each of Georgia's 159 counties, then it is fair for me to compare the real dollars paid by Union Co. citizens to real dollars paid by citizens of each of Georgia's 159 counties as well.

I fully comprehend that the services we have cost money, and that as a smaller county, those services have a higher cost per person (it's called marginal utility). As the population grows the overall cost goes down, greater quantity = smaller per piece cost, etc. THAT is NOT the what we are discussing. Nor are we discussing whether the budget is being handled with the utmost efficieny possible (I for one think it leaves MUCH to be desired). What we are discussing is the disinformation being spread that Union Co. has low property taxes vis-a-vis a low millage rate. That is simply NOT TRUE!

Sonny is an individual, as am I, as are we all. Sometimes I agree with Sonny, sometimes I don't. I do respect the fact that Sonny speaks his beliefs in the light of day, and opens himself up to attack by doing so no doubt. I've been there. And I think there are probably a good many other people in this fair county who see things similarly on this particular issue, which I happen to have a SIMILAR (not exact) opinion on as Sonny/fairplay.
And frankly, I think rather poorly of you trying to blanket me with Sonny or anyone else, in an Us vs. Them approach round-up. Not that I greatly mind being placed at Sonny's side, as at least the man thinks for himself! Some of his conclusions I think are off-the-mark, others, he is DEAD ON. But one thing I've come to see about Sonny is that he reaches his own conclusions, and that they are a product of his own mind, not repetition of someone else's thoughts and tactics. I pray we all have the backbone to speak our own minds and thoughts as openly and with his conviction. When it comes to that, I would be proud to be 'pigeon-holed' with Sonny and his upfront and outspoken ways. They are what made this country and keep it great!

ďIt does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather a tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.Ē - Samuel Adams

Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam.Go to Top of Page

fairplay

USA
36 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  1:11:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
why-- Once again someone assumes how I feel about something. I am pleased about values going up and I am not dissatisfied with my taxes. I am in my 70's, I am in the covenant and I look at my land as an investment for my grandchildren. My taxes were less than a pack of smokes. I know we will have to have a rollback in millage if the values go up with this reevaluation. by law our taxes can't go up unless the people accept it. Lamar will have to have hearings before he can do that. There is so much apathy in this community, like always, hardly anyone will show up

sonnyGo to Top of Page

why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  1:17:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
mt."And frankly, I think rather poorly of you trying to blanket me with Sonny or anyone else, in an Us vs. Them approach round-up." You opinion of me makes little difference in my life, the only opinion that maters to me are God, my family and my friends, if you are any of the above I'm sorry.

You said that it is a virtue to speak as we think, well that is what I just did, but since it doesn't agree with you that means I'm wrong I guess. As for it being a us vs them thing, I firmily beleve that its gotten to be a them vs them thing, with us being left out. I live in the mountains because I was raised here and this is where my family is.

If you wish to test my back bone feel free. The words you hear from me are my beliefs. I feel that I am an independent, I think party politics are becoming the ruination of America with that most politicians are only out to be re-elected and not seeking the betterment of the state and nation.

No, I don't think the county government is run a efficently as it should be, but I also don't think it will ever be completely so. Try putting three people in a room, each will have a different opinion, my use for the county may be much different than others.

You say we need to plan for growth, I say we should control it. The first county ordinance I would enact would be to limit the building of houses on the sides of the mountains, this would totaly fly in the face of those who make their living by developing, buying and selling land or who make their living in the building trades.

If you feel Lamar is lying to us, attend the next county meeting and ask him. I think Lamar is trying to do what he thinks is best for the county, I do think he is influenced by the wrong people in some instances and is bowing to a vocal minority on some other issues.

The first thing I told the realtors when I first move back here (yes I grew up here and my family goes back as does yours) was that I didn't want anything with restrictions, didn't care about the lake, views from the top of a mountain, I just wanted a place to live. The house I bought cost aleast 1/3 more than the comparable house in the other locations I had lived in before.

I think that we have services equal to or better than many larger counties. Do we pay too much tax, yes of course we do, I complain each time I pay my tax.

You seem to be a learned individual, why not do the research and present the facts to us. Prove it to me and I will hush.

Sorry to be so touchy about this but I get so tired of hearing so many negative things about the local government. If you disagree with whats going on, put your name on the ballot and state your platform. Heck I might even agree with you on some things.

why

Edited by - why on 02/08/2006 1:21:01 PMGo to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  3:57:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well.. Im back from Mrs. H&R Block. We absolutely love Diane but now I am really ready to crawl back into bed and just fall asleep and dream of good things cause the bad is all on paper now and cha ching we have to pay in... those of you who thinks that having lotsa kids helps with taxes too, nope and proven right here!

Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith.

Saint Francis of Assisi
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Gaonmymind


199 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  4:11:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Reminds me of what our CPA told us a few years back.
If your paying taxes it means you're making money.
Guess just getting by is making money . They are no longer our CPA. LOL

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why

USA
2072 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  4:19:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I once met a man who was in his mid twenties and owned a consruction business in another state. His outlook on the whole money thing was "I hope I can owe a million dollars time I'm 30".

I hope I make enough to keep paying taxes in some form, I'm real partial to the use tax or a flat tax of some form. We then can start taxing some of this drug money and will take away some of the tax write off by the deep pocket types.


whyGo to Top of Page

ShadowMan

USA
4158 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  6:23:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit ShadowMan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
And if it is fair for the commissioner to compare Union Co.'s millage rate to the millage rate of each of Georgia's 159 counties, then it is fair for me to compare the real dollars paid by Union Co. citizens to real dollars paid by citizens of each of Georgia's 159 counties as well.

Why asked you where you got your figures that indicated that "Union Co. is among the top 30 most expensive counties out of the 159 counties in Georgia". That's a reasonable request, and one which you appear to have avoided answering. Can you indicate a referencable source for that statistic?

The GA Department of Community Affairs has a county by county snapshot with data relevant to your factoid. They noted for Union County:
The county collected an average of $150 per capita in property taxes during the past five years. This amount was less than the average of $190 per capita collected by similarly-sized counties. For the same period, the average per capita amount of county property tax collected in Georgia was $190.

That does not sound like it is supporting your statement of Union being one of the 30 most expensive counties for paying taxes.

(Why, I thought your response was excellent, by the way.)

Shadow

This is my kirttimukhaGo to Top of Page

GrayEagle

USA
9966 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  7:46:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit GrayEagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The UCDA web site has some interesting information. Look for the "Taxes" heading/selection on the left side of the page. http://www.ucda.net/newfront.htm

GrayEagle
"Beauty of whatever kind, in its supreme development, invariably excites the sensitive soul to tears."
Edgar Allen Poe

Edited by - GrayEagle on 02/08/2006 7:57:58 PMGo to Top of Page

daughterofconfederate

USA
29728 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  10:36:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Buhahah! Ga, tooo funny! I sincerely love Diane and it aint her fault really at all. We sold land and though we took profit to buy this house,... we still had to pay capital gains.. that and paper.. paper reports things that well.. dont show the reality of things.. :( Specially when you dont have enough of the proof where you spent money and all. I made a box for receipts and well.. lets just say it werent as full as it shoulda been... anyways, nope, no millionairs here and Why, I dont mind payin in a lil cause we are self employeed and we need to do so so when we grow old or get hurt or.. if the SSI is still in function we wont be in worse shape than we could be but I did hope to get back again this year some at least. :( O well.. done and at least we are doin things legal and can rest at nite :).

Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith.

Saint Francis of Assisi
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